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  • #1

    Refin questions: how to lighten a finish

    I have an RG with a mahogany body and quilted sapele top that, for some reason, Ibanez finished in a very dark stain, which almost completely obscures the grain (I had a Jackson like this, too - I hate it when guitar companies put dark finishes over figured wood!) [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

    I want to refin it to the wood's natural color, but I have a couple of questions.

    1. Must I sand the current dark stain out of the wood, or can I bleach it or something? I'm hoping there might be some kind of stain lifting type of product.

    2. If I get really adventurous (or if I just really screw up the top) [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img], I might try putting a flame maple veneer on it. I would be very interested in hearing from anyone who has tried this. I did read the tutorial on Project Guitar, which is great, and shows exactly what I would like to do. HERE IT IS.
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  • #2
    Re: Refin questions: how to lighten a finish

    most companies will put dark trans finishes over figured wood that isn't so spectacular. in other words, it's possible or probable that is why you've got such a dark tint to it.

    what you can do depends on how the guitar was finished. it wasn't stained, it would've been dyed, or there could've been just tinted clear shot over the natural top. i'd strip it (faster), and see what you get, if you're feeling that adventurous.

    sully
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    • #3
      Re: Refin questions: how to lighten a finish

      On imports, companies don't pay amazing attention to the concentration of the paint, resulting in light or dark finishes. It's also possable, as stated above, that they finish darker because the figured top isn't spectacular.

      Your going to haveto either sand the top or have the person who's painting it do it for you. It's not to hard if your just having the top re-done. wrap some sand paper on a block of wood and sand dude. I don't know of any way to bleach wood, and if there is, I don't think it would be to good for it.

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      • #4
        Re: Refin questions: how to lighten a finish

        yep, plain ol' wood bleach. i've never used it, so i have no idea how damaging it can be, but wood certainly can be bleached. not for this kind of purpose, necessarily.

        sand it, strip it, your call, senor! or just forget about it; projects are overrated! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
        Sully Guitars - Built by Rock & Roll
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        • #5
          Re: Refin questions: how to lighten a finish

          [ QUOTE ]
          On imports, companies don't pay amazing attention to the concentration of the paint, resulting in light or dark finishes. It's also possable, as stated above, that they finish darker because the figured top isn't spectacular.


          [/ QUOTE ]

          +1 to that. On the RR Legend I purchased from guitar express, the finish was CRAP. I've never seen such poor paintwork in my life. The pinstripes were splochy and white was coming through all over.

          I have a feeling I got the runt of the litter though.

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          • #6
            Re: Refin questions: how to lighten a finish

            Thanks for the input, everyone. The finish on this guitar is factory-perfect right now, smooth as glass, very well done, and very glossy. It's just way too dark for my taste. And to be honest, I'm also trying to satisfy my craving for a Charvel San Dimas I without actually buying one. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Maybe after I get this looking like satin mahogany, I can pretend it's my San Dimas. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

            I'm gonna trow a real good beatin' on it today with Formby's, and see where it takes me. I'll post pics later.

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            • #7
              Re: Refin questions: how to lighten a finish

              If / when you strip this there's a chance you won't have to bleach the wood at all. I don't know if you remember the BC Rich Wave project I had but it had a maple center/neck block & mahogany wings that they sprayed with a dark brown tinted poly.

              The finish was checking badly so I used a steam iron to soften & peel a portion of it off the maple and found that the wood was completely unstained/unmarked by the finish which lifted off totally. For whatever reason the poly flashed quickly enough that the tint in it didn't mark the wood at all and 20-25 years later the color hadn't leeched down in the least.
              Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam!

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              • #8
                Re: Refin questions: how to lighten a finish

                Wow, that would be great. I really want to avoid sanding if I can, because the top is just a thin veneer, and I know that if I start sanding, that veneer is gonna be gone. That wouldn't be the end of the world, as it's mahogany underneath, but the quilt is pretty (what I can see of it), and I'd like to preserve it if I can.

                Status update:

                After about 3 coats of Formby's Paint Remover (approx. 20 minutes, then 30 minutes, then 45 minutes, with a plastic scraper used between coats), the finish isn't even breaking a sweat. I think it actually likes it. If this coat doesn't work, I'm gonna go set my power sander next to it to show that I mean business. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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                • #9
                  Re: Refin questions: how to lighten a finish

                  Hey, there is some mahogany under there! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
                  Well, I tried the chemical method, which was very slowly succeeding (I'm talking several days), until a piece of my veneer lifted up and broke (between the bridge and bridge pickup recesses), and then all bets were off. They say never to raise your power sander in anger, but I did anyway, and eventually, I got 'er down to bare mahogany. Here's a pic of that:

                  . . . and here's a shot as she stands now, with a coupla coats of clear:

                  I don't know about anyone else, but to me, she looks a lot better with that very dark stain gone, so that I can actually see the grain.

                  Now to put 'er back together!

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                  • #10
                    Re: Refin questions: how to lighten a finish

                    i didn't see it before, but that mahogany looks really nice! one thing you may wanna do is go to hobby lobby or something to that extent, and get yourself a piece of very thin black foam with a sticky backing to it. cut it out in the trem recess shape, and slap it in there.
                    Sully Guitars - Built by Rock & Roll
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                    • #11
                      Re: Refin questions: how to lighten a finish

                      [ QUOTE ]
                      i didn't see it before, but that mahogany looks really nice! one thing you may wanna do is go to hobby lobby or something to that extent, and get yourself a piece of very thin black foam with a sticky backing to it. cut it out in the trem recess shape, and slap it in there.

                      [/ QUOTE ]

                      <font color="aqua">if they don't have that, I like to use "black felt" (insert joke here). </font>
                      Dave ->

                      "would someone answer that damn phone?!?!"

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                      • #12
                        Re: Refin questions: how to lighten a finish

                        I have a black felt in Hai Karate and Thai-Won-On [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
                        I want to depart this world the same way I arrived; screaming and covered in someone else's blood

                        The most human thing we can do is comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

                        My Blog: http://newcenstein.com

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                        • #13
                          Re: Refin questions: how to lighten a finish

                          [ QUOTE ]
                          I have a black felt in Hai Karate and Thai-Won-On [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

                          [/ QUOTE ]

                          <font color="aqua">that was BAD!!!!!! but you made me do the beer through the nose trick! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img] </font>
                          Dave ->

                          "would someone answer that damn phone?!?!"

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                          • #14
                            Re: Refin questions: how to lighten a finish

                            I take it you remember Hai Karate? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
                            I want to depart this world the same way I arrived; screaming and covered in someone else's blood

                            The most human thing we can do is comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

                            My Blog: http://newcenstein.com

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                            • #15
                              Re: Refin questions: how to lighten a finish

                              <font color="aqua">Matt, you can NEVER forget that crap..... [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

                              By the way, sorry about the thread hijack (quiksilver) and I also noticed I didn't even comment on how great the body looks, you did a great job, bro- [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img] </font>
                              Dave ->

                              "would someone answer that damn phone?!?!"

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