Need a lesson on paint types and history.........

[Ozz666]

I know there's nitrocellulose laquer....what other types of paint/clear have been used for guitars? And what are the pros and cons of each?

Thanks,
- Joel

[Jim Shine]

Re: Need a lesson on paint types and history.........

There are a few grades of nitrocellulose. The two basic styles are furniture grade and musical instrument grade. The Furniture grade is what you see on most guitars before the mid 1960's. It has a nice hard feel, but finish checks and wears rather quickly. Musical instrument grade keeps a nice appearance much longer, but has a sort of tacky feel compared to the furniture grade.

Acrylic Laquer is similar to nitro but rather than use celluloid plastic, it uses acrylic. This is what you find in spray cans by many car paint companies (dependiong on where you live). It can be a fine guitar finish and feels alot like musical instrument grade nitro, but takes much longer to cure.

Polyurethane is a nice finish that you see onmany guitars up to this day. It can be applied in a medium thickness and gains a slight sunken into the wood patina over time I may switch to spraying this stuff as Nitrocellulose formulations are being dicked with and I have been having problems with some of the new formulations.

Polyester is a catalyzed finish that cures quick and is hard as a rock. We see this used often these days as well, but it usually is applied thick for some reason. This is perhaps the most durable finish. It stays glossy and doesn't gain a patina in age.

[j2379]

Re: Need a lesson on paint types and history.........

Jim BCRich was using polyesters back in the day, i dont know what they use now. anyway, almost all the OLD BCRs have a very thin finishes & the paint really settles into the grain. I know they didnt use alot of grain filler if any. Even in Maple you can see where the finish settles into the pits & grain of the wood. when i had a BCR refin'd with polyester it seemed very different. are there different kinds of polyester finishes? or did the guy who refin'd my guitar not use polyester & just told me he did.

[Jim Shine]

Re: Need a lesson on paint types and history.........

Are you sure the iold stuff was polyester and not polyurethane? People confuse them, some even think the two are the same.

[j2379]

Re: Need a lesson on paint types and history.........

nope it was polyester...i was told they used it because it dries much quicker

[Jim Shine]

Re: Need a lesson on paint types and history.........

Polyurethane does too. I guess it could be because it is applied thin as most companies go thick. But I know older BC Riches I have had (never had them long) from memory were polyurethane. EDIT: but it could be a formulation too. I have had a hard time teling on some Jackson and Charvels which of the Poly's was used.

For drying speed companies now have some cool technology. Fender has a curing room that cures Nitrocellulose in a couple of days rather than the usual 4 weeks.

[mm2002]

Re: Need a lesson on paint types and history.........

Jim, what are the polyesters your speaking of? All of the polyesters I know of are base coats only, and require a polyurethane top coat. And as far as the thickness, polyesters are the ones that are applied thin. Most modern day polyurethanes are high solids formulas and go on quite thick. Also, all true polyurethanes are catalyzed. Polyster bases are available in catalyzed and non-catalyzed formulas. I'm not contradicting what your saying bro, I would just like some more info. I've been painting for many many years but I also realize there's new technologies out there every day.

[mm2002]

Re: Need a lesson on paint types and history.........

Oh, and about curing of lacquers, I have infrared curing lamps that can cure lacquer (nitro or acrylic) in 8 hours. GM actually used this technology back in the 60's and 70's with their acrylic laquer finishes. (they switched from nitro to acrylic in 1956 or 57 I believe)

[Ozz666]

Re: Need a lesson on paint types and history.........

Thanks for the info guys! Waiting to hear back from Lee at GMW so I can ship a KV1 to him for new paint...then off for more magic from there [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

- Joel

[Jim Shine]

Re: Need a lesson on paint types and history.........

If you want to see Polyester, look at most any GMW refin. Historically, You can see Polyurethane used on pre 1975 Fenders, Polyester on post 1975.

[mm2002]

Re: Need a lesson on paint types and history.........

I was actually so interested in this topic I called my Dupont rep today just for a little 101 on polyesters. According to Dupont, polyesters are only used for base colors (in high quality and automotive applications). The only times they are desireable as an actual top coat are as a "low cost" alternative in situations such as commercial building fascias, sign painting, and pre-fab metal building construction, and mainly in areas where VOC's (volatile organic compunds) have been regulated by the EPA. This explains why we don't use them on cars, and why Fender or GMW may use them on guitars. They are evidentially nothing more than a low cost, low VOC alternative to a good quality paint system. If anybody here has a better explanation please fill me in but I've been trusting Dupont for many years without fail.