spring configurations

[sworn_enemy]

I'm using 10-46 gauge strings tuned to Eb on my RR1 and I want the string tension to be closer to my soloist which is in E standard. I have 3 trem springs in both configured in the normal \|/ shape. Is there any way I can change the springs in the RR to get a little more tension?

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: spring configurations

I've done a LOT of thinking about this lately, and I don't think it's fundamentally possible. You're using the same gauge strings on BOTH your guitars, which have 25.5" scale lengths, Floyds, and the three springs in the W-shape pattern. The ONLY way to increase the tension is the go UP in your string gauge, to say, 10.5s or 11s.

See, if you tried cranking the spring claw on your RR1, your Floyd would dip. To counter this, you'd have to tune higher to pull your Floyd level, and you'd increase the tension as you want, but you'd be back up to Standard tuning, exactly where you DON'T want to be because that's Soloist territory.

Also, consider this. I don't believe it, but supposedly, the W-shape creates more tension than the E-shape pattern (three parallel), so you could make the Soloist in the E-pattern and the Rhoads in the W-pattern, although you'd lessen the tension on the Soloist, which you said you wouldn't want since the Soloist's tension is perfect as it is.

I'm also not sure that I believe adding a fourth trem spring is a remedy either, as I now believe adding springs and successfully levelling the Floyd can only be done when using heavier gauge strings. But hey, you might have luck with this. I didn't, but then again, I was trying to go from three springs to five on my Soloist. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Went back down to three after I just couldn't tune the damn guitar and get the Floyd level again. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Next alternative, try a Hipshot Tremsetter. It will stabilize the Floyd and make it not so "buttery" and to eliminate virtually all of the "give" that the Floyd provides when you fret/bend notes. Result? Increased tension (I think).

So there you have it... lots of NOTP's absolutely crazy ideas to try out if you feel insane like I do most of the time. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I pray at least SOME of my big schpiel is right... [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Ace]

Re: spring configurations

String tension has nothing to do with your trem. A string's tension is a direct result of the pitch the string is tuned to, the gauge of the string, and the scale length. If both your scale lengths and string gauges are the same, the lower tuned guitar will have more play in the strings. Trem springs don't affect string tension at all. They're whole job is to provide equal tension on the bridge to hold it level in a fixed place, and to make the trem return to that fixed place. Wether your take 2 springs or 5 springs, the tension should be the same if your guitar is set up properly.

[Grandturk]

Re: spring configurations

[ QUOTE ]
String tension has nothing to do with your trem. A string's tension is a direct result of the pitch the string is tuned to, the gauge of the string, and the scale length. If both your scale lengths and string gauges are the same, the lower tuned guitar will have more play in the strings. Trem springs don't affect string tension at all. They're whole job is to provide equal tension on the bridge to hold it level in a fixed place, and to make the trem return to that fixed place. Wether your take 2 springs or 5 springs, the tension should be the same if your guitar is set up properly.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but not entirely true. Percieved string tension will lower if the bridge moves. So a trem with less spring tension will deliver lighter action when the guitar is played, as the bridge will move forward when pressure is applied to the string by fretting or bending it.

Spring tension is regulated by the number of springs, type of springs and the initial position of the spring. A closed spring is has more tension than an open spring (it is harder to open a closed spring than to open an open spring wider), thus the reason why some people angle the spring - this increases the distance between the claw and the block, thus keeping the spring open and letting the trem move more freely.

It's best to experiment with a few different setups to find which one you like best. Dan Erlewine's guitar repair and setup books are a great read for this type of stuff, except for the fact that he shows an Ibanez Lo-Pro bridge instead of a Floyd loaded Jackson.

[toejam]

Re: spring configurations

Adding springs will indeed affect string tension. When I was using Floyds, I usually used four or five springs, as I liked the stiffer feel of the Floyd. Two or three springs feels kinda floppy but brings ease in use of the Floyd and makes it easier to get the Brad Gillis "warble" effect by flicking the bar.

[Ace]

Re: spring configurations

It affects the trem stiffness, but when you are not using the trem the string tension is going to be the same. That is a good point about the trem giving slightly when you are playing, but I don't think that it will make up the difference between the two guitars tuned a half step apart.

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: spring configurations

[ QUOTE ]
Originally posted by toejam:
When I was using Floyds, I usually used four or five springs, as I liked the stiffer feel of the Floyd.

[/ QUOTE ]

I STILL don't know how you managed to do this in standard tuning unless you used super-heavy strings. What was your secret? I know for SURE that I could NOT get the Floyd to level out using 5 springs and 9-46 strings, no matter how much I tried. My trem claw was very far out and the springs themselves had nearly zero tension on them each because there were so many sharing the load. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Grandturk]

Re: spring configurations

[ QUOTE ]
but I don't think that it will make up the difference between the two guitars tuned a half step apart.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well once you put that into the equation, all things are not equal.

[toejam]

Re: spring configurations

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Originally posted by toejam:
When I was using Floyds, I usually used four or five springs, as I liked the stiffer feel of the Floyd.

[/ QUOTE ]

I STILL don't know how you managed to do this in standard tuning unless you used super-heavy strings. What was your secret? I know for SURE that I could NOT get the Floyd to level out using 5 springs and 9-46 strings, no matter how much I tried. My trem claw was very far out and the springs themselves had nearly zero tension on them each because there were so many sharing the load. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
I used 10-46 and tuned to either E, Eb or D throughout the years... never had a problem.

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: spring configurations

Mother of Christ... D tuning with regular light strings and five springs... [img]/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img] I am finding this still so hard to comprehend, let alone in standard tuning which I couldn't do. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img]

[delt]

Re: spring configurations

i use d'addario 9-42's for standard tuning and 10-46 for D.

dean markley's tend to have more tension for the same string gauge, i don't know why.

> Mother of Christ... D tuning with regular light strings and five springs...

hehehhehehe...... 9-42's are still reasonable for Eb, but for a whole step down..... holy schitt (: (:

[BleedMetal]

Re: spring configurations

[ QUOTE ]

I used 10-46 and tuned to either E, Eb or D throughout the years... never had a problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm using the ZW signature 10-60's and my three tension springs are almost touching the tension screws. WOAH!!! If I back off the screws even a little the bridge goes sky high. Talk about tension!!

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: spring configurations

Any further, BleedMetal, and you might want to consider slapping in a fourth spring to bring your trem claw out just a wee bit. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Dreamland_Rebel]

Re: spring configurations

[ QUOTE ]
dean markley's tend to have more tension for the same string gauge

[/ QUOTE ]

this is true! plus they are IMO the best sounding strings (even though i don't use them becuase i like the feel of a round core wire better ie, GHS boomers or DR tite fit's)

i use 10-46 and tune to Eb with my RR1 (ok its a rhoads pro from the early 90's so same difference)

i use the W or \|/ pattern and love the tension. its not loose at all but bends well.

if you think it needs more tension, just re-setup with Dean Markley 10-46 and i think you'll find everything sitting perfect!!!