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  • On starting a business

    Ok, so how much interest is there throughout the guitar community for a Musical Equipment Shipping Service? Not just here, but what about the Gibson, Fender, Ibanez, etc etc etc communities? I know several JCFers also hang out at the other boards, so does Jackson catch the majority of damage because of the pointy head or is it widespread across ALL the major brands?

    If it's a cross-brand epidemic, I'd definitely be interested in partnering with others across the country in forming a shipping service that only dealt in guitars and other musical equipment (pianos are OUT of the question).

    Of course, we'd need financial backers, and financial backers require speedy service for low cost to maximize profits, which if the backers are not musicians/collectors, they won't care about damaged goods (see UPS), so financial support would have to come exclusively from the collector/buyer types.
    Then there's the cost of vehicles, servicing those vehicles (fuel, parts, mechanical work, etc).
    Then there's establishing a communications network for tracking packages.
    Salaries.
    Packing materials.
    Insurance for both the entrusted packages and filling claims (as well as legal support for defining liability) and the vehicles and the employees.
    Business licenses, advertising (can't get business unless they know there's an alternative to UPS/FedEx).
    Etc etc etc

    So, does anyone see this as feasible, or should we all just continue to sweat it out with UPS?

    OR should there be serious consideration of alternate case designs? The current SKB designs seem to be about the best because they clamp the guitar down and do not allow movement, whereas G&G cases look great but allow serious damage.

    Newc
    I want to depart this world the same way I arrived; screaming and covered in someone else's blood

    The most human thing we can do is comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

    My Blog: http://newcenstein.com

  • #2
    Re: On starting a business

    Originally posted by Newc:

    So, does anyone see this as feasible, or should we all just continue to sweat it out with UPS?

    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I like how you think, Newc; great thread!

    My thoughts:
    The formation of a new company seems like a huge undertaking. You're limiting your customer base (guitar shipping only), and you're up against well-established titans in the industry. The infrastructure & start-up costs don't seem to make this idea cost-effective, IMO. How many guitarists are willing to pay $75, $100, $150, $200? to ship their axes? Answer: the inverse of the number of people that cackle at eBay auctions with ship costs above $50. [img]graemlins/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

    As a possible solution to this aspect of the problem, let's research alternative shipping companies. As I reported earlier, Gibson uses BaxGlobal for some Gibson & Epi guitar shipments

    http://www.baxglobal.com/US.asp


    From my albeit limited experience, Bax provides superior service to both UPS & FedEx.
    "Quiet, numbskulls, I'm broadcasting!" -Moe Howard, "Micro-Phonies" (1945)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: On starting a business

      Man your post has me replying to all avenues:

      Originally posted by Newc:
      or should we all just continue to sweat it out with UPS?
      <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Again, I ask, why UPS? [img]graemlins/brow.gif[/img] Yes, some have had bad experiences with FE, but with the incredible amount of time I have spent here on the JCF, I maintain that UPS horror stories FAR outweigh those from FE. Far, I say! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

      The last guitar I shipped was my 475 - from SoCal to NoCal...FE warned me about ground service dangers (they wouldn't admit to any ape-like handling procedures, rather the discussion was mainly that the box will be stacked with many other boxes - because more go by ground than by faster - and that many boxes *might* be stacked on top of mine). After a discussion of delivery times (FE 2 day vs. ground for the relatively short distance) and taking into account my awesome packing job (double boxed with lots of peanuts) I decided to go with FE Ground. The Charvel arrived at Nick's place in perfect shape in 3 days. [img]graemlins/toast.gif[/img]
      "Quiet, numbskulls, I'm broadcasting!" -Moe Howard, "Micro-Phonies" (1945)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: On starting a business

        The UPS vs FE decision comes into play when you consider that not everyone lives in a metropolitan area that holds both facilities. I know there's a FE unit out here in BFE somewhere, as I do get deliveries from them and they know the area, but I cannot find the building. I know where the UPS place is, and it's a 10-15 minute drive. FE might be closer, or just as easy to get to, but if I don't know where it is....

        Never heard of Bax, and again, if I don't have one nearby, I can't go there. Airborne has to come from over 70 miles away, and they get lost easily.

        I could call for a pickup, but do they send you a bill after it's been weighed and shipped? Even then, I can't guarantee they'll get here to pick it up before I go to work at night or before I go to bed in the morning - if they show up at 11 am, I'm already snoozin to be at work that night. Unless I can specify a time for them to pick it up, that service is useless for me and anyone else who works nights.

        I'm not worried about going up against "the Titans", as I'd deal with only one market - music gear. They'd probably welcome the idea as it would mean less insurance claims, plus they've got practically everything else covered - from books to computers - and I'm sure music gear is not even a column on their ledgers.

        Even as a startup, I doubt seriously that it'd cost $100 to ship a standard guitar in a standard carton, especially if you can establish a network of "drop points" and delivery drivers;
        -Someone local wants a guitar shipped to Texas, they bring it to me, I drive it to North Mississippi, drop it off at another network location who takes it to north Louisiana and drops it off at another network location, who drives it to the Texas border, and then another network location drives it to either another network point or to the destination.
        You've got maybe 4 hours or less driving time for each driver.

        Newc
        I want to depart this world the same way I arrived; screaming and covered in someone else's blood

        The most human thing we can do is comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

        My Blog: http://newcenstein.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: On starting a business

          Originally posted by Newc:
          OR should there be serious consideration of alternate case designs? The current SKB designs seem to be about the best because they clamp the guitar down and do not allow movement, whereas G&G cases look great but allow serious damage.

          <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Now, I think this avenue might be more feasible (although I like your "pony-express" style idea for a shipping co. - that'll be another post). Come up with a modern, shock-proof shipping case. It would have to be made so strong, there will be no worries about *any*
          shipping company. Basically, "ape-proof".
          Man has been using "boxes/cases" to ship items in one form or another for hundreds (thousands?) of years. Would a radical redesign of the basic box solve our problems? Or do we need to look into a modern material that can be combined with the old-style case?
          Or...do companies like Anvil already have a product? Again, we're back to dealing with expense....how many would be willing to pay $$ for a nice case?
          "Quiet, numbskulls, I'm broadcasting!" -Moe Howard, "Micro-Phonies" (1945)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: On starting a business

            You know what would work really well? Inflatable case bladders / innards. Maybe something like a traditional form-fitting case with maybe 1/4" all the way around the guitar to allow for the inflatable bladder. If you really blew it up, there's no way the guitar could move and it'd provide a nice cushion.

            Now somebody go build it (but remember that you'll have to cut me in on the patent). [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
            Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: On starting a business

              Actually I thought about that inflatable innards thing a while back, but forgot about it till you mentioned it [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

              Anyhoo, yeah I think it'd work, but then again you still have the real possibility of UPS gouging the case with a forklift or other sharp object.

              Anvil cases are the best but where do you draw the line between customer expense and shipper's responsibility?
              Should the guitar community band together to hassle the shippers about proper handling?
              What about other collectibles groups like pottery and such? Anyone know what kinda damages they're running into?

              Maybe a shipping carton/case that is re-useable? SKB makes a giant case that can hold a Strat-style or Keyboard case inside it, making for double protection (aluminum and ABS). Then again, we're back to square one - trying to find a less costly way to solve the problem. Throwing money at it won't make it go away.

              Newc
              I want to depart this world the same way I arrived; screaming and covered in someone else's blood

              The most human thing we can do is comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

              My Blog: http://newcenstein.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: On starting a business

                I think if this venture was to get off the ground, the big shippers would take notice and crush you. Maybe you're better off pitching your idea to UPS and FedEx and trying to get a job there starting a new division(unless they're reading this now and have already begun laying plans for worlwide musical instrument shipping domination!)

                I think a better use of your time would be to move to Chicago, New York, or LA, rent a storefront, hire some 16 year old kids with zits for $6/hour and specialize in running consignment ebay auctions and/or professional packing/shipping of items (shipping through a 3rd party). You can advertise that you have a blackbelt in guitar packaging.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: On starting a business

                  But the ultimate goal is to remove the possibility of damage during shipment (at least the possibility of HANDLING damage - vehicular accidents are another story), therefore, shipping via UPS/FedEx/USPS/etc wouldn't be an option.

                  Newc
                  I want to depart this world the same way I arrived; screaming and covered in someone else's blood

                  The most human thing we can do is comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

                  My Blog: http://newcenstein.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: On starting a business

                    well i think you are SOL then.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: On starting a business

                      NFW would that work with that limited scope. We've all seen the wild market swings...

                      However, expand the scope of the business to include...

                      Paintings
                      Fragile artwork (statues, carvings, glass, etc.)
                      Memorabilia
                      Coins
                      Other items that can't be replaced

                      ... and you just may find a niche. The biggest part would be the underwriting - you would need a crapload of insurance and legal assistance.

                      Go for it.
                      [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
                      750xl, 88LE, AT1, Roswell Pro, SG-X, 4 others...
                      Stilletto Duece 1/2 Stack, MkIII Mini-Stack, J-Station, 12 spaces of misc rack stuff, Sonar 4, Event 20/20, misc outboard stuff...

                      Why do I still want MORE?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: On starting a business

                        You are talking about a multi-billion dollar start up, and thats the least of it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: On starting a business

                          Chuck - I'm not talking about a fleet of trucks and airplanes for a startup - I'm talking some U-Hauls and VERY flexible delivery schedules to start. Obviously the first priority would be delivery of goods in the same condition they were received - no warehouse/distribution points with conveyors and 10-foot-high drops, just loading/unloading/swapping in the far corner of a WalMart parking lot in the middle of the night.

                          Nor - That's the kind of thing I'm talking about - valuable breakables (coins are not breakable, so those are out), though for insurance purposes I'd leave the million-dollar stuff to UPS. Plus the International Stuff.

                          Newc
                          I want to depart this world the same way I arrived; screaming and covered in someone else's blood

                          The most human thing we can do is comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

                          My Blog: http://newcenstein.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: On starting a business

                            Damn naysayers [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

                            Didn't we already deal with a setup like that called Instrument Exchange? As I recall they not only ruined many people's daily Ebaying, but they were also the least-informative bastards around [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

                            You guys go probe college wh0res all you want, I got a guitar to deliver, so I better start hitchiking if I want to get it there by Friday [img]graemlins/evilimages/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

                            Newc
                            I want to depart this world the same way I arrived; screaming and covered in someone else's blood

                            The most human thing we can do is comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

                            My Blog: http://newcenstein.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: On starting a business

                              Awww...sorry Newc. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]
                              Look, if it helps, I'm a licensed pilot so if we can rent a plane I'll fly the shipment. Course now it's an $1800 shipment and probably won't be that much faster cause I'm only licensed for single engine aircraft. But hell, as long as we're dreamin here...!

                              I know! We'll load the rest of the carrying weight in weed and make trip pay for itself! Now we can offer competitve rates! Waddya think? [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

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