True or False: Floyd Rose Double Locking Tremolo

[uglijimus]

You should be able to dive bomb to its maximum downward position, or pull up to its maximum position without

1. strings breaking
2. going out of tune.

and does it matter if you have an authentic FR or a licensed one?

[Number Of The Priest]

With a good setup, you minimize string breakage and tuning issues when abusing the tremolo.

With a great setup, you practically eliminate them.

With a high quality tremolo system (more hardened steel parts, fewer zinc alloy or pot metal parts) paired with a great setup, you basically approach perfection.

In my experience, any double locking trem won't matter AS LONG AS the knife edges, tremolo posts, the saddles and saddle blocks, and the locknut and pressure pads are in good-to-perfect condition. The knife edges may be the most critical while the other parts are easy to replace if worn.

[Vass]

Never broke a string from using the Floyd. Bending notes prob has less of a chance of breaking too as the Floyd gives a bit when you bend. Not a ton but enough that I notice it and bend a bit further to hit the pitch I’m reaching for. Doesn’t seem as rough on the string than a hard tail.

From a physics sense it probably doesn’t make a difference but it feels springier and less “hard” when bending to the same pitch on a Floyd. I seem to break more strings on non-Floyd equipped guitars.

[metalhobo]

From a physics sense it probably doesn’t make a difference but it feels springier and less “hard” when bending to the same pitch on a Floyd. I seem to break more strings on non-Floyd equipped guitars.

from a physics sense the tension is the same when you're bending up to the same pitch. if you're breaking fewer strings it's probably because the floyd saddles are less prone to breakage.

but yeah, I've never broken a string with my floyds from pulling up. I do 1.5 step bends all the time playing normally but rarely pull up higher than that with the bridge.

[d4rin]

Is the original floyd rose still considered the best?

I have used the ibanez ones, those were shitty and had some crappy parts, but I think the original edge was all hardened steel and joe/satch play them so I am guessing they're damn good.

The thing is, you MUST stretch the hell out of the strings, spend awhile doing that and lock down the nut and you will notice the tuning could get you through a whole show with just minor adjustments with the fine tuners.

But if you have a crappy tremolo that is a factor, The best tuning i've had has been with the original floyd.

And if you watch the video, Gary Moore live in Stockholm he uses the same guitar for the whole set except for the last song, and Moore stretches the hell out of the strings and plays aggressively, you can see him a few times adjust the fine tuners but that's it.

Basically to keep it in tune like that:

1. Stretch the hell out of the strings, finish stretching before clamping the nut
2. Make sure the floyd is floating flat with the body
3. Make sure the clamps are tightened enough

[Number Of The Priest]

Is the original floyd rose still considered the best?

I have used the ibanez ones, those were shitty and had some crappy parts, but I think the original edge was all hardened steel and joe/satch play them so I am guessing they're damn good.

Depends which Ibanez tremolo you had. For example, there are many complaints about the Edge 3 but I suspect they're gripes from newbies who purchase low/mid-priced Ibanez guitars equipped with the Edge 3 and whine how it goes out of tune or is fidgety, when the truth is that they are really just uneducated about their first double-locking tremolo and need to learn how to set one up properly. But yes, an Edge 3's construction quality won't be as good as an Original Edge.

To me, the highest quality tremolos available are the:

Schaller family:
1) Floyd Rose products. All hardened steel parts, hardened steel knife edges are part of the hardened steel baseplate, with brass sustain block. Of course I'm just talking about the base model, without upgrades like titanium saddles and so forth.
2) Schaller Lockmeister. Same comments as Floyd Rose. Not to be confused with the standard "Schaller tremolo" or even the Schaller/Jackson JT590 which have zinc alloy parts with steel knife edge inserts, among other zinc parts.

Gotoh family:
1) Gotoh GE1996T. Same comments as Floyd Rose.
2) Ibanez Edge and Ibanez Lo-Pro Edge. Zinc alloy parts (with hardened steel knife edge inserts), but very heavy overall mass and great build quality compensates for that.

My perfect tremolo is a hybrid of the two families. From the Floyd Rose family, I like the all-steel construction and the finger-adjustable tensioned tremolo arm collar, but the Gotoh family feels very comfortable under my hand.

Anything other than the ones listed above are fine for me with good setups (example: the Takeuchi family of tremolos) but the above basically reign supreme.

[uglijimus]

thanks for the feedback.

I bought this a few months ago, its my first Jackson:
https://www.guitarcenter.com/Jackson...tric-Guitar.gc

I haven't had a lot of time with it probably 30-40 hours in all, but some observations so far:

1. I got it set-up by a professional in my area. I think it is a great set-up, i.e. plays great, the floyd is completely flat (parallel) with the guitar body,etc.

2. the high E string slipped (did not break) out of the saddle when I did a full bend on the 24th fret and then at the peak of the bend, I pulled all the way up on the whammy bar. Maybe that was going too far??

3. I put it back in, locked it in the both the saddle and nut, and started to stretch it out and it came out of the saddle again just from stretching it with my fingers. I haven't had that problem since then.

4. Recently I haven't been locking in the nut after tuning. I have been playing normally and as long as I don't pull up on the whammy bar or depress it to
the point where it goes beyond a whole step, it stays in tune. But as soon as I lock in the nut even without using the whammy, it seems to go slightly out of tune.

5. The other day I pulled up suddenly on the whammy bar and snapped the D string.


I am not sure if these problems are just me, the tremelo system, or a combination of both? I probably wouldn't have these problems if I didn't raise or lower the pitch by more than a whole step using the whammy, but it makes me think, what's the point of having the whammy bar if you can't use it to its full potential?

I love the sound and playability, but every time I use the whammy I'm starting to feel some dread.
This guitar is just a stepping stone as I eventually I wanted an RR1 (I played it 4 years ago and it was the best guitar I've ever played) but maybe I'm not
cut out for a floyd rose...-_-

[Number Of The Priest]

That JS Series guitar has what the JCF consensus considers to be a Jackson-branded Floyd Rose Special.

A Floyd Rose Special is identical to the Original Floyd Rose other than the zinc alloy saddles (instead of steel) and zinc alloy sustain block (instead of brass). The most crucial parts (namely, the knife edges) should be hardened steel just like any good tremolo, and actually part of the baseplate like the Original Floyd Rose. Technically, swapping the saddles and sustain block for steel & brass respectively brings the tremolo into OFR spec.

So this revisits one question you had in your original post way at the top, where you asked if it mattered if you have an authentic FR or a licensed one. A Floyd Rose Special is an authentic FR product. I'm not sure if the Jackson-branded bridge on the JS Series guitars have the words "Licensed under Floyd Rose Patents" anywhere on it, but since it's essentially a Floyd Rose Special, I can't imagine it would have that script.

Without actually looking at your guitar personally, I have no solution for the problem you posed in Observation 2 and 3.

Observation 4: Locking the locknut pressure pads will send virtually all guitars slightly out of tune. That's why the bridge includes fine tuners, to be used at the last step of tuning.

Observation 5: Where was the location of the break? At the saddle? In the middle of the string? At the nut? At the tuning post (presuming you didn't lock down the locknut pressure pads as per Observation 4)? Depending on the location, the break signifies different things. Saddle = possible sharp edges or burrs. Middle of the string = it happens very occasionally during violent playing (for example, bending or rapid tremolo picking) but has nothing to do with the bridge or nut. Nut = possible sharp edges burrs on your locknut or pressure pads. At the tuning post = possible improper winding of the strings at the post causing slippage, breakage, or improper hold on the string.

I owned a 2016 SL3X with a Floyd Rose Special and it was functionally identical to an Original Floyd Rose and gave me zero problems as an experienced owner of double-locking trem systems.

[uglijimus]

@number of the priest

-so, if I replace the zinc alloy saddles and sustain block, I may minimize some of my problems. Then again, you had a special FR and didn't have any problems to begin with...

-On my FR plate it says "Jackson by Floyd Rose" which is strange...should be the other way around. I guess it is FR special.

I guess it is "good" to know that all guitars go slightly out of tune when the locking nuts are tightened.

My D-string that broke, was near the saddle.

something that I just remembered. My friend's son who just bought a Synster Gates Schecter guitar has a FR on it. from the logo, it looks like an authentic. I abused the hell of it and never went out of tune.

Stupid question but it is possible to stretch a string by say, taking each end of it with a pair of plyers and lightly pull on it in opposite directions??

[CaptNasty]

@number of the priest

-so, if I replace the zinc alloy saddles and sustain block, I may minimize some of my problems. Then again, you had a special FR and didn't have any problems to begin with...

-On my FR plate it says "Jackson by Floyd Rose" which is strange...should be the other way around. I guess it is FR special.

I guess it is "good" to know that all guitars go slightly out of tune when the locking nuts are tightened.

My D-string that broke, was near the saddle.

something that I just remembered. My friend's son who just bought a Synster Gates Schecter guitar has a FR on it. from the logo, it looks like an authentic. I abused the hell of it and never went out of tune.

Stupid question but it is possible to stretch a string by say, taking each end of it with a pair of plyers and lightly pull on it in opposite directions??

Replacing the saddles should help minimize tuning and string breakage problems.

When I string up my guitars, I stretch the strings by taking each string one by one and pulling it up with my hand and moving this stretch point between the nut and the bridge several times. No pliers needed. Did the string break or did it slip out of the saddle?

I know you posted due to concerns with string breakage and tuning stability, but you also mentioned replacing the sustain block which is not a stability upgrade. I am providing the information below to give you information regarding upgrades that can affect your tone.

The sustain block will do nothing for tuning stability or string breakage. It will however in my experience improve the resonance of the guitar. I personally prefer Tungsten sustain blocks for their aggressive tone. The OFR stock sustain block is a thin, brass block. Going to a “big block” can give you more mass (and thus greater resonance) but will mostly eliminate pull ups. That is part of why I like the Tungsten block, you get the same mass as a Brass big block in the thinner profile block and you retain pull ups. If you replace the sustain block you need one of the correct length. The length of your sustain block should be on the face of your current sustain block (e.g. 32, 37 or 42).

If you replace the sustain block, you might also consider replacing the tremolo claw (which is pot metal) with a brass claw. This will not affect tuning stability or string breakage but it will improve guitar tone. I was surprised at the improvement the brass claw made.

A final Floyd upgrade you could consider is noiseless springs. Again this is not for stability. It will reduce the creaks, thuds and thunks that are common when using tremolo systems

I did the block, claw and spring upgrades to my sons Music Man JP16. It had a pot metal block and claw. Before the upgrade we felt the guitar sounded thin and “lifeless”. After the upgrade it is tonally a completely different guitar.

[Number Of The Priest]

-On my FR plate it says "Jackson by Floyd Rose" which is strange...should be the other way around. I guess it is FR special.

It makes sense if you read it as "Made FOR Jackson BY Floyd Rose". Which is true.

I guess it is "good" to know that all guitars go slightly out of tune when the locking nuts are tightened.

The first Floyds actually didn't have fine tuners. Adding fine tuners compensated for the locknut sending the strings slightly out of tune.

My D-string that broke, was near the saddle.

NEAR the saddle, or AT the saddle? Check for sharp edges or burrs (anything less than a smooth surface on any string contact point) on your D string saddle, just to be sure.

something that I just remembered. My friend's son who just bought a Synster Gates Schecter guitar has a FR on it. from the logo, it looks like an authentic. I abused the hell of it and never went out of tune.

Schecters have 1000 Series Floyd Rose products. These are basically OFRs (hardened steel everything with brass sustain block) except made in Korea instead of Germany. Basically, OFR > 1000 Series > FR Special in terms of quality and price, but they are all interchangeable as discussed before.

Stupid question but it is possible to stretch a string by say, taking each end of it with a pair of plyers and lightly pull on it in opposite directions??

Do exactly what CaptNasty recommended above me, or follow the following procedure which I prefer. I know the video shows a Taylor guitar but the exact same principle applies. Start watching at about 5:27 for the string stretching procedure. I tend to go overboard with my stretching and even use the whammy bar to stretch and release the strings to break them in.

[CaptNasty]

...Do exactly what CaptNasty recommended above me, or follow the following procedure which I prefer. I know the video shows a Taylor guitar but the exact same principle applies. Start watching at about 5:27 for the string stretching procedure. I tend to go overboard with my stretching and even use the whammy bar to stretch and release the strings to break them in.

The procedure in the video is precisely what I was trying to describe. The video definitely makes it very clear how to do it. It is harder than I realized to describe that procedure with words.

[uglijimus]

I'm not sure anymore if my D-string snapped, or slipped out. After it happened, I pulled it back out towards the saddle and measured. There was no excess left over which made me think that is snapped, not slipped out. But when I loosened the clamp, I did not find any part of a string in there. I am willing to admit that I may not be tightening the saddle clamp screws tight enough. I stripped the nut plate on one of the screws holes when I was locking in the locking nuts when I first got the guitar and have been traumatized since then...

I am coming up on a string change soon. I am a little worried about stretching the string like in the video, because I had it slip out of the saddle when doing this before. I may have been pulling up too much though. I was about to make a youtube video on my channel reviewing this guitar (I just did a sound test video on it) but I wanted to give it a fair shake before I start criticizing the FR. I'm going to spend another month or so using some of your guys suggestions (not sure if I will replace the saddles just yet) and get back with you guys and let you know how it went.

[CaptNasty]

With pot metal saddles, string slippage can easily be a problem. The saddle and/or the saddle insert can both become creased resulting in less grip on the string. New OFR saddles should solve this problem for you permanently. I also tend to replace the stock saddle inserts on the OFR with brass or Titanium saddle insert. Replacing both the saddles and the saddle inserts should ensure that you get years of use without having to worry about wear causing lower string grip.

[Number Of The Priest]

I am willing to admit that I may not be tightening the saddle clamp screws tight enough.

Then again, you also don't want to be over-tightening screws that you're crushing the little saddle insert blocks, stripping the screws, etc. After enough trial and error (and tinkering), you get a feel for the "right" amount of tightening you should be using.