Non locking locking nut!

[mrfrisky330]

This is really odd, bought a nice secondhand Fusion SS and noticed I couldn't lock the E/A nut clamp it started to tighten then would go loose again.

Me thinks knackered thread in the nut...anyhoo noticed the other 2 clamps could be tightened BUT the machine heads could alter the string tuning when clamped (??)

Never seen a clamped top nut that allows the machine heads to alter the tuning - very strange.

So I bought a replacement nut, fitted it and now I can lock all 3 clamps at the nut (wahey!) but the machine heads still can alter the tuning no matter how tight the clamps are locked!!

Never experienced this before, on other guitars with locking nuts I have owned the machine heads make no difference once the nut clamps are locked but on this guitar even a new top nut assembly doesn't stop the machine heads altering the tuning.

Why is this, can/does it need to be fixed and if I use the trem does that mean the tuning will be out??

[paranoid]

if you can alter the tuning with the string blocks properly oriented and tight There must be some issue with that locking nut. I have a bad habit of breaking the high e string on my pointy head stock guitars when I grab them out of the wall hanger, and the nut holds it secure enough that I continue to use them that way until I am ready to replace the strings.

[mrfrisky330]

Yes that is exactly what happens with other guitars!

I was thinking, it seems logical to assume the previous owner had the same issue and tried to tighten the E/A clamp to such an extent they ruined the thread in the nut itself, so this makes me wonder - is it the right nut for guitar? What is the correct size nut for a Fusion SS as it currently has a 43mm nut on it?

[mrfrisky330]

the replacement nut I bought was like the "original" 43mm but to test a theory I have ordered a 42mm one to test, and also just incase for some strange reason 43mm nuts on 24.75 scale length causes and issue...

[warlok]

Are you sure the locks are properly oriented? The top apex goes parallel with the strings, not perpendicular.

[BlackRR]

An R2 nut is not interchangeable with an R3 as the deck height or route depth is different and scale length does not have any adverse effect to nut performance. I can only think of 2 reasons you are having that problem and they are as said earlier that the blocks are not installed properly or the locking screws are to long and bottoming out before you can fully tighten. I guess it's possible that you have a bad nut, I've never come across one myself so having two with the same problem leads me to believe your issue is with installation.

[Jackson8090s]

What about a shim under the nut? I'd take the guess work out of the equation pop the nut off re-measure to be sure what size goes there. R2 1-5/8" (41.30mm) R3 is 1 11/16's (42.90mm) Floyd offers 3 shim sizes 0.01, 0,02, 0.03 on their site for 2 bucks each.

[BlackRR]

You need a shim about 3/64" or .048" to use an R2 instead of an R3.

[paranoid]

the profile of the nut and shim or not shim will have no effect on the lock not holding the strings. either the blocks are on wrong, the screws are bottoming out, or maybe the nut is loose and moving on the neck. you need to look real closely at what is actually happening to know how to fix this. I do not think buying more parts will fix it unless the second nut you put on it was no good from the start.

[ralph]

Sounds like you've got a stripped thread for the cap screw on the e/a block, but its pretty hard to tell without seeing it

and yes if the strings aren't locked your tuning stability will suffer if you use the trem bar, the whole point of a locking nut is to lock the strings. If it isn't locking you may as well leave the blocks off

[mrfrisky330]

well the stripped thread in the original nut was done by the previous owner who obviously seemed to be experiencing the same strange issue.....

Having the right width nut will ensure the string spacing is correct, having measured the old nut a discovered it is 43mm but is not stamped underneath suggests it was replaced at sometime. The clamp botls not being long enough to screw the clamp is discounted because the clamp bolts can be tightened to the point of no further turning possible and all 6 strings can be re-tuned via the machineheads!

I only did the super tight experiment as the nut was cheap (and the wrong width) so it doesn't matter as I have bought a replacement, simply done in the name of science, have rotated the clamps 90 and 180 degrees to no effect and am using the complete new nut assembly with no difference.

Maybe its just cursed?

[paranoid]

the block screws must be bottoming out on the neck or shim before the blocks get tight!

[mrfrisky330]

The blocks are good, the screws in the clamps go straight through when the nut it taken off.

I have found the cause of the issue! Putting the 2nd replacement nut (the correct 42mm size not what 43mm like the previous owner had) I noticed the screws that came with it didn't screw straight down into the neck but where more at an angle and would not go flush into the nut screw holes - not good!

Put the old screws in which went in straight and flush and tight, put new strings on it tuned if, left it to settle all was well. Locked the clamps did a couple of divebombs noticed the D string went out, fine tuned it then pulled the trem up, there was an audible "clunk" from the nut and the E and B strings went sharp and the low E and A dropped, looking at the nut IT HAD MOVED there was a visible space between the edge of the fingerboard and the E/A side of the nut I could put a plectrum in the gap!

Repeating the procedure made things a bit worse, so because that is an issue beyond my knowledge to fix I shall take it too the local guitar shop and let them fill/re-drill and re-fit the nut

As I have said before having had used floyd style trems for over 20 years I had never before experienced this issue but now I know what caused it - a clumsy nut replacement by the previous owner


Thanks for your help dudes

[straycat]

You can dowel the existing holes and re drill in the proper location.
Really pretty easy fix.
Usually if you tighten the locking block and still can use the tuners the locking block screws are too long and pushing against the neck in turn moving the nut up away from the neck.
Look on the nut shelf and see if there are marks from the locking block screws.
If you have a bound neck an R4 is a good replacement and will give you the proper string spacing.

[mrfrisky330]

Luckily the 42mm replacement nut fits, but even though what you say as a fix is exactly I what would do, because it's such a rare guitar and I really like it I am nervous of ruining it through careless drilling!

So I shall be entrusting it to a local music shop (queue the sound of cash tills ringing)

If the guitar was so something like a Korean Dinky yeh in a heart beat I would be out with the drill, titebond and dowels!!

Thanks for the advice