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  • Spring tension measuring?

    I recently got my USA Warrior back, only to find it sounded lifeless, even acoustically. Its obviously not the pickup height or the wiring. The tension in the strings is stronger. Is there a way to measure the amount of tension of the springs under the JT-590, or is it a trial and error thing?
    Fuck ebay, fuck paypal

    "Finger on the trigger, back against the wall. Counting rounds and voices, not enough to kill them all" (Ihsahn).

  • #2
    Easiest way would be to get new springs, they will tell you how many lbs of tension they have.

    But assuming the guitar is tuned to pitch, the springs have nothing to do to string tension. They'll only affect how firm or floppy the trem feels when you use the bar.

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    • #3
      Stiffer springs can also make bends feel stiffer since the trem doesn't rock forward as easily, so the perceived tension is higher even if the actual tension is the same. Give us some background. Did you send it out to have work done and it came back sounding different? If so, did they put a different brand of strings than you usually use on it?

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      • #4
        The springs were never changed (to my knowledge), but the tension in the strings is stronger. The trem was originally tilted backwards, caused by me, when I changed 9's to 10's and downtuned to D. But there was plenty of umpfh in the sound. I then sent the guitar to have the pickups changed (only because they've been praised by many JCF members). When it came back, the stronger string tension was immediately obvious, as was the tinny cocked wah sound. Foolishly thinking it was the pups, I had the guitar put back to stock; But it was only then I noticed I could even hear it when the guitar was unplugged too. The strings and springs were never changed. It was at this point I knew I should've kept the new pickups and demanded the tech redo the setup, or had measured the tension prior to sending the guitar to have the pups installed.
        Fuck ebay, fuck paypal

        "Finger on the trigger, back against the wall. Counting rounds and voices, not enough to kill them all" (Ihsahn).

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        • #5
          The tension of the strings is ONLY affected by the string gauge, scale length, and pitch. The perceived tension can be affected by a few things, such as the action, the break from the nut, etc. Several factors are eliminated since you have a tremolo. If the setup is similar to the one that you had before in terms of action, etc., the only explanation is a change in gauge.

          The only other possibility I can think of is that although the springs weren't changed, the trem claw is screwed further into the body and the springs are under more tension than before. It'd have to be a pretty large difference, though.

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          • #6
            1st of change the strings back and tune it as you had them tuned before.
            Check the trem-claw on the back as Argos wrote.

            And then check the neck-bow.

            Or bring it to a technician.
            Cold Hollow Machinery

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            • #7
              ^^ This. Set the string gauge and the trem tilt and tuning like you had it before.

              Also, were your springs previously in a \|/ pattern in the back and now are ||| ? That can make a difference.

              Lastly, how long were you separated from the guitar, and what did you play during that time, and how different are those two?
              I want to depart this world the same way I arrived; screaming and covered in someone else's blood

              The most human thing we can do is comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

              My Blog: http://newcenstein.com

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              • #8
                My other two guitars have 9's and tuned to E. I was only seperated from the guitar for 5 days max.
                Fuck ebay, fuck paypal

                "Finger on the trigger, back against the wall. Counting rounds and voices, not enough to kill them all" (Ihsahn).

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                • #9
                  String stretching

                  OK, whilst I never had any issues with new strings before to this guitar being gutted, I am not ruling anything out. I tried just playing the fuck outta the guitar at first. I also tried stretching the strings with my fingers. Is there a way or some tool to stretch strings very quickly?
                  Fuck ebay, fuck paypal

                  "Finger on the trigger, back against the wall. Counting rounds and voices, not enough to kill them all" (Ihsahn).

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                  • #10
                    I just tune it to pitch, then do full-step bends at the 12th fret several times. then tune it up and repeat... until they stay in tune. that can be 3-4 times, it can be many more times. have some TV or music going to help the time pass. lol! hope that helps.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Newc View Post
                      ^^ This. Set the string gauge and the trem tilt and tuning like you had it before.

                      Also, were your springs previously in a \|/ pattern in the back and now are ||| ? That can make a difference.

                      Lastly, how long were you separated from the guitar, and what did you play during that time, and how different are those two?
                      how does that affect it Newc? that interests me. I never thought of it before, but now that you mention it...... I can see where it might. is the \|/ pattern stiffer?
                      "clean sounds are for pussies" - Axewielder

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                      • #12
                        I think what Newc is saying is the \|/ produces less tension or at least the impression of such. But the springs in this guitar have always been |||.
                        Fuck ebay, fuck paypal

                        "Finger on the trigger, back against the wall. Counting rounds and voices, not enough to kill them all" (Ihsahn).

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                        • #13
                          I was thinking about the angled vs straight spring thing last night, and think I have it figured out. Warning, super nerdy stuff to follow:
                          Normally, the strings and springs are in balance, and the string tension, for a certain tuning and scale length, is fixed. Which means the total tension from the springs is the same, regardless of their angle or how many of them they are. But once you press on the bar by a certain angle, the block moves away from the claw by a certain amount, causing the strings to stretch. At this point, the force from your hand on the bar is balanced by the tension in the springs. The tension in each individual spring is proportional to how far it's been stretched. So if you have four springs, there's twice as much tension as with two (in either case, the degree of stretch is the same). If you have two strings straight, compared with two strings at an angle (|| vs \/), the stretched distance between the block and the claw is the same, but the angled springs have stretched less, so there's less tension for the same amount of whammy bar movement. Imagine a triange with the base at the claw, one edge going in a straight line from the claw to the block, and another edge being the angled spring from block back to claw. The straight edge extends by a certain amount but, because of Pythogoras' rule, the longest edge - the one formed by the spring - extends by a lesser amount.
                          Hope this is of interest to some - I know it puzzled me for a while.
                          My other signature says something funny

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                          • #14
                            Misinformation removed!
                            Last edited by javert; 03-02-2012, 05:08 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Ah, I forgot that the spring force for the angled case is not operating in the direction of the trem bar...

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