Action Advice

[iain_atkinson_1986]

Alright folks!

I'm just looking for advice on setting the action on my Charvel Star (2005 pointy). The strings were choking quite badly around the seventh and ninth frets as well as between the 17th and 19th frets. I tried adjusting the truss rod to give the neck more relief but in the end had to raise the trem (Floyd Rose), so the action is a bit higher than I'd like and it's still noting out a bit on the lower strings high up on the neck.

Any ideas? Did the 2005s come with a shim in the neck pocket that I could take out or anything? The only thing I changed from factory set up is that I play 10-46. Generally I don't like the action on a guitar that low but it's even a bit higher than the recommended 1.5 mm on either side.

Cheers,

Iain

[SausageofPower]

How are you sighting the relief? Also, for me at least, I've tried everything in terms of action height but ended up sticking with 3/32" on the bass side and 1/16" on the treble side (fretted at the first). Gives me the right mix of clarity and sustain with room to do bends without choking out.

[iain_atkinson_1986]

I look down the neck and judge the bow by the line of the fretboard (rosewood). Do you measure the height of the action at the 12th fret? My main issue is still the noting out on the base strings circa the 17th fret. I assume that far up the neck, i.e. right above the neck joint, the height of the bridge would be more important than the truss rod?

[SausageofPower]

I measure at the 17th, since that's where I'd been told to do so before. Fret at the first, or capo if you have one, measure and adjust if needed. To sight relief, you should fret or capo at the first and last frets and look at how far above the fret your strings are at the 7th fret (I use the low E, but I've heard of checking at the D string since it's close to the center of the board). I just eyeball that one myself. A little relief (probably the equivalent of the B or G string) works best with my playing.

[Argos]

Go get a 18" straightedge from the hardware store, and lay it down the neck, sitting on top of the frets. The relief is the space between the top of the frets and the bottom of the straightedge. Measure approximately at the 7th fret. 0.1mm- 0.5mm is a typical amount of relief. I suppose you could use a ruler or something too (if you don't have a straightedge), just know that the measurements won't be super accurate.

It sounds like you might have actually put too much relief in the neck, but you'd need to measure and we can go from there.

[iain_atkinson_1986]

So I've just set it up and basically have raised the action and tightened the truss rod. I think you guys were both right. It had been a while since the guitar had been out of its case so I'd forgotten how much bow there was on the neck. There is still a tiny bit of noting out in the higher frets but I didn't want to over tighten the truss rod or raise the bridge too high as the fret wire will need looking at soon and I've never levelled or polished frets before so I'll probably take it to a tech.

I swapped out the stock TB-14 for a TB-6 and am not convinced about how the guitar sounds. I've always used Duncan Distortions but recently got an Edwards Les Paul with a JB in the bridge and like how it sounds so I might try something a bit less shrill in the Star at some point.

[ginsambo]

I can never tolerate the action at 1.5mm, it has to be higher, especially in winter, getting more like 2mm. My tech handed my back a guitar like that recently and sure the notes played cleanly if you tickle them but the way I play it sounds awful with a low action. I always find that aside from the majority of frets needing dressing and crowning for wear, the top four or five on the bass side are always the ones that get unplayed, so if there is any buzzing or fret out those are the ones that usually need levelling down, rather than mostly crowning. And you'll surprised how quickly you wear your frets down. Even jumbos, to the point it will create fret buzz because of the 'Like New' frets high up on the neck on the E, A and D strings etc. Also below 1.5mm, you almost have to have the frets dressed like every few months if you play for a few hours a day, everyday, its too expensive.

[iain_atkinson_1986]

What's the going rate for a tech to do that or is it straightforward enough to do myself? The guitar doesn't get played that much any more but the frets are pretty rough in places.

[ginsambo]

Should be around £60-£70 for a full dress and crown from a private luthier working from home. Shops with premises may be more.

Less maybe if only the top frets are the problem.

You can do it yourself, but you'll need to set the neck completely flat using a rule with notches cut out as a guide or clamped with dial gauges, there is quite a bit to it to do it well and you'll need a decent broad flat file and crowning files, once levelled then you have to crown each fret. I'd rather leave it to someone who does it everyday or at least once a week to be honest. Sully did a video of how to, it very good. Its straightforward if you are methodical.

If you take it to a tech, make sure you tell the tech what you like. The luthier I used did a good job in fairness for hardly any money, but set the neck almost completely straight with the action really low, kind of a shred setup, as I play very heavy at first I thought he'd done a shit job, as it buzzed like crazy when I gave it some. But in retrospect after putting some more relief in the neck it was spot on, he really did a great job, and the culprit for the buzz was the top frets in the end, although the cowboy chords frets and 2nd/3rd position pentatonic bends grinding wear my frets down fast and they'll often need a lot of recrowning.

There is a lot of blind trust involved in handing over your baby to someone you've never met before too which is scary, especially if his place is a mess, just make sure he's not a smack addict having you on!

[Argos]

It'll cost you around $100.

[ginsambo]

$100 / 1.574 = £63.53 or as its usually at $100 / 1.50 = £66.66 = Spot on!

[adampone]

another option for checking relief is the capo at 1st fret. then depress the fret where the body meets the neck (typically at or near 16th fret). then use a feeler gauge at the 8th fret. there whould be +/- .010" between the top of the fret and the string. if you're dealing with a FR, remember to have everything set up as perfect as possible. I've seen a tweak here or there with a FR affecting the need to readjust in other places. if you adjust the truss, make small turns (1/8th of a turn) and allow it time to settle. some adjustments might still settle in the next day. patience and attention to detail are the keys.

be careful with using a straight edge on the tops of frets. that just tells you about the frets and not the fingerboard. I've been doing the feeler gauge for a long time, but recently got a notched straight edge from 'neck check guitars'. it's long enough to make it to the 22nd fret and has Strat scale on one side and LP on the other. I'm still getting used to it and double-checking with the feeler gauge process, but it's a cool option.

for fret work, tap Sully here on the forum. he has some videos on how to do it. but personally, I'm not that confident in my skills with frets, so I'd take it to a luthier.

[Argos]

Seems to me the capo and feeler gauge method wouldn't tell you anything more than the straight edge method. Both assume the frets are in good shape. The feeler gauge measurement will never be correct because the string isn't a perfectly straight line. A notched straightedge is the only way to get a precise measurement, but most people won't make that investment.

[Chad]

^And if the fretboard wood is wavy/uneven, a notched straightedge won't help with getting a precise relief measurement either. It's a matter of trial and error for each guitar to find what works best. But if the frets are in reasonably good shape and leveled, a normal straightedge and feeler gauges should get you in the ballpark.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

I use the notched straightedge to get a neck flat for leveling. For setting the truss rod the capo & feeler gauge method works great. The only real advantage is that you don't have a large metal tool near our guitar that might scratch it.