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How much fret can you take off before refretting?

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  • How much fret can you take off before refretting?

    I think I confused myself for a while here. I heard that Jackson wire was supposed to be about the same as Dunlop 6100. Apparently read it backwards, thinking that the frets were supposed to be .110 tall. Oops, .055 tall and .110 wide.. My Model 6 and bolt soloists have .053-.055. So, I now know I'm fine on my Model 6 and the USA Soloist. But my Soloist Pro has decent divots. I'm looking to start trying fretwork as I like to learn and to do everything I can myself on my guitars. It looks like The deepest divots are about .010" deep. If I was able to level them down to about .045" tall, would that affect the way it plays and feels a whole lot? I'm normally using 9-42's in standard tuning if that makes a difference..
    Every man dies... Not every man really lives!!

  • #2
    I've not tried it yet, but I'm on the same road you are. I'm still in the 'reading all about it' phase. There are some guys on here that'll give you better tips, but this is one of the links I've found:
    http://www.skguitar.com/SKGS/sk/fretcrowning.htm
    Hope it helps.
    "illegal downloading saved people from having to buy that piece of shit you tried to pass off as music" - Nighbat

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    • #3
      That guide looks decent. You don't want to use a radius block on a compound-radius board like a Jackson/Charvel, though. You want to use the long beam type leveler. See if you can find info on how to do a compound-radius board with the longer beams. I use a Stewmac beam but you can use a good aluminum carpenter's level (if it's really flat.)

      Some "tips" from someone who's done it a few times:

      - Pay close attention to getting the neck as flat as possible (no relief, no backbow) before you level it. Use the truss rod and a notched ruler

      - Make SURE the neck is supported so it stays flat while the leveling beam is on it - put the beam on, and check it's flat.

      - Let the weight of the beam do the work, just scoot it back and forth. Don't press on it.

      - If something doesn't seem right, i.e. the first and last frets are not getting touched... Double check the flatness of the neck.

      - You probably want to add a little "fallaway" above the 12 fret. You can search and find many guides on how to do that. I use the shorter Stewmac beam to do that.

      - The diamond crowning files are $90, I bought the fine cut one because I do stainless/61GD frets sometimes on necks I order but that file is EASY to put a nice crown on any kind of fret, I think it's worth the $90

      - If you add up all of the tools I mention here you could get a complete refret for cheaper, or at least 4 setups that include a level/dress.

      I've never measured how much fret I take off. You want to take off no more than you have to, and even on some of the hairiest "huge divots" old junkers I've done the playability was still very good - .010 is nothing. Most anything but 6100 starts out at about .045 or shorter when it's brand new.

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      • #4
        I'd say you're safe as long as the guitar plays good. It's more of a feeling thing. And obviously if the frets are too low you'll notice as your intonation goes bonkers.

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        • #5
          If i were you i would get a cheap beater or a cheap replacement type neck and practice on it or a few of them before going to your nicer guitars, unless you don't mind having to take it for a refret is something goes wrong.
          If you are really handy and steady handed you can pull it off, but it's still not very easy, to do well it takes a lot of practice, imo. The caveat is, you can take it in to have it done by a "pro" and they can screw it up too, really gotta find someone with a good rep for doing good work.

          Actually i have such a neck if you want it, it's fairly hammered beyond what i consider even worth bothering with, if you want to use it to practice on, i have no such desire to preform that kind of maintenance.
          If you want the neck let me know, it's a 21 fret fender cheapo, free, if you want to pay for shipping fine, here to az aint much i don't mind either way.

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          • #6
            I think it is more of a question of "should" than "could". If there is a lot of metal missing, you might be able to level and recrown them. However, the end result might feel more like vintage frets and not be what you prefer. Refer to this link for specific dimensions:

            http://www.lutherie.net/fret.chart.html
            _________________________________________________
            "Artists should be free to spend their days mastering their craft so that working people can toil away in a more beautiful world."
            - Ken M

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            • #7
              Thanks for all the info. I've looked at numerous threads/sites/videos on it and am semi-comfortable trying it out. I'm one who'll try anything and it seems to work out pretty good. My theory as of now is that they all need work and the Pro being the worst I'll try that first so if I mess it up, it's off to plon for a refret.

              MAJNH - Those tips are exactly what I've gleaned from my research so hopefully I'm on the right track... Thanks!

              Trem - That has been my plan and if you got one I can practice with, I'd definitely appreciate it. Check you're PM..
              Every man dies... Not every man really lives!!

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              • #8
                I watched this 22-part series on re-fretting a Stratocaster just this week. It's about three hours long. Here's a link to the first episode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tka_B...eature=channel The guy's username is: smbstressfest

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                • #9
                  Can't look at youtube from work but I'm pretty sure that's the first one I watched when I started thinking about it. Pretty good info there. I'd really like to find something similarly detailed to those for a compound radius. I have the idea on leveling and obviously you can't just run a radius block to level a compound radius but I'd like to see a video on someone doing one. Anyone seen/have a video for that?
                  Every man dies... Not every man really lives!!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Trussrod View Post
                    I watched this 22-part series on re-fretting a Stratocaster just this week. It's about three hours long. Here's a link to the first episode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tka_B...eature=channel The guy's username is: smbstressfest
                    Those are fantastic videos. The other refret video where he fixes a Les Paul has even more information, specifically pertaining to bound boards, which OP's Soloist Pro will definitely have. That one is also about three hours. He also did a six hour series on how to put together a parts guitar and everything you will want to do when setting it up.

                    I'm in the same place as you, warlok. After a recent polish, I noticed a few rather sizeable divots on the frets on my Soloist XL. They haven't affected playability so I'm not going to worry about them yet.
                    "Dear Dr. Bill,
                    I work with a woman who is about 5 feet tall and weighs close to 450 pounds and has more facial hair than ZZ Top." - Jack The Riffer

                    "OK, we can both have Ben..joint custody. I'll have him on the weekends. We could go out in my Cobra and give people the finger..weather permitting of course.." -Bill Z. Bub

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                    • #11
                      The playability isn't really bad on any of them. Even the Pro with decent divots I can get a good setup on with minimal buzz but I do feel the divots when I bend etc.. What got me thinking about it most is when I got my Kelly XL. It had just goten a LCP before I got it and the frets are perfect. It is truly the best playing neck I have. Strings are so low with zero buzz and it plays so good that it made me wonder how good my others can be.

                      Nothing to do at work (jet engine shop) so I decided I have more time than money (and I'm getting paid as well). Took an old 24" aluminum level and lapped it perfectly flat on the surface plate. Now I have a perfect sanding beam for leveling. Found some scrap 1/8" aluminum flat bar and made a 20", 9.25", and 4.5" straight edge bars (all lapped perfectly straight). And made a notched 20" straight edge for checking the board (also lapped perfectly straight). Now I basically just need a crowning file (I don't know if I want to try the triangle file.. may need more practice than I'll have..) and I'm going to build a wood base with adjustable height arc'd pieces in the middle to hold the neck stable while working on it. I'll start another thread with pics and/or videos when I get started on the actual process.
                      Here's a quick pic from my phone:
                      Last edited by warlok; 08-30-2010, 03:40 AM.
                      Every man dies... Not every man really lives!!

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                      • #12
                        Nice job on the homemade stuff!

                        You'll want another shorter beam (12" or so) and I would really recommend a shaped crowning file vs. the 3-corner file. If you don't want to buy the diamond offset one (but I would, it's sooo easy...) they have some straight ones that are fine for nickle frets for like $40.

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                        • #13
                          They are expensive but definitely look worth it. Now if I could only make a homemade diamond crowning file.. where's that old diamond earring... lol
                          Every man dies... Not every man really lives!!

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                          • #14
                            warlok,

                            I was also thinking about doing a fret job and saw that 22 part video. It gets boring at times but he goes in great detail and you can really see up close with the camera he uses.

                            I'm in the process of finishing up my neck jig...I got the plans here:

                            http://guitarwise.blogspot.com/2007/...tt-vinson.html

                            Parts are about $40....This jig at Stewart Mac sells for $400. You might need one of these.

                            dinkyguitar

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                            • #15
                              That neck jig is way overkill... You just need to get the neck good and flat and then support it so it stays that way with the weight of the leveling beam on it.

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