Duncan JB vs. Distortion??

[warlok]

I Have a Kelly XL with a JB/Jazz and I always loved the sound from it but maybe slightly deeper lows from the JB would put it right on the mark. Now in the Model 6, I'm trying out a Distortion in the bridge seeing if it would be "the one". I gotta say, I'm not really that impressed. I think most of the sound is just like the JB except for (literally) the bottom 3 frets on the low E string. Maybe slightly punchier everywhere else but about the same. When I'm chugging away, or muting (just going 012301230123 etc.), or playing something like the second part of mater of puppets, I really can't hear the notes. Just the distortion. It sounds really loose, bassy, undefined... I guess what you would call muddy?? Leaving everything the same and switching to the Kelly/JB, it sounds perfect, exactly the tight, defined, punchy tone that I want (see below why as well). With the M6/Dist, I tried rolling off the vol, turning down the gain, changing EQ settings, nothing gave me the sound that the JB had.

I should mention as well, I know most of you hate the Blue Voodoo and I'm not looking to argue about this.... (DonP - keep your fingers off the keyboard ya wiseass!!! lol). But in the last few weeks I've been on a "make it sound better hunt" and I see why people don't like it as it is. But.. I seriously think people haven't given it a chance. I found the one BIG thing it needed was an EQ. Lots of amps (most IMO) do. I have a DOD rack 31 band that a friend brought over and also used a MXR 10 band as well. They both took the amp, smacked it around a bit, and set it straight. I can get this to sound however I want now. It is very marshall-y. I can pretty much nail old Ozzy/Randy, and old Metallica (Kill 'em All up to the Black one, don't want anything later than that!!). And that's what I wanted.

Anyway, with MY new amazing amp tone and the Kelly with the JB, I found the sound I want. So I'm going to stick a JB in the Model 6 in the next day or 2 and see what happens.

I just thought it would be nice to have a post with my opinions where there is no bashing the Crate or the JB... (hint, hint...):ROTF:

[Newc]

If choked potential and squeezed nuts is your idea of a good tone, then yeah, the JB is your ticket. The thing about the Distortion that everyone forgets is that high-gain pickups were meant to overdrive low-to-moderate-gain amps, with or without a gain-boosting pedal. I have no idea what the Blue DooDoo is supposed to have for gain, but if it's a high-gain amp and you're running a Distortion into it, it's not the pickup that's the problem.

And from what I've read, the Distortion and the JB are the same, but the Distortion has a ceramic magnet as opposed to the Alnico5 magnet of the JB.

[straycat]

High quality pots and caps will make a big difference if you want to get rid of the muddy-ness.Better string deffiniton too.

[warlok]

I'm definitely in the group that thinks that your whole setup is where you get your tone. Or at least the sound your looking for. And that's what I'm looking for, the sound I like. Running my first Hondo strat into a recto or plexi, or a gibson les paul into the old gorilla probably doesn't quite do it for most. So saying that the JB is "choked potential and squeezed nuts" may be a slight bit off the mark. And the sound from the "Doodoo", now with the tweaking DOES do it for ME. I guess it's a good thing I'm not making it sound good for anyone else!

Outside of that... When I decided on the DD over the JB, I was going off the sound I was getting with a JB, EMG's, Jackson's, etc.. But I have seriously altered the sound of the amp to MY liking since I started building this one and now I see that the DD is too much. You're right that it seems to be meant for a lower gain amp. And the BV is a higher gain amp. Which it seems to ME, that the JB may be well suited for. So I'm going to try it.

The vol pot is a CTS push/pull and the rotary switch is the one that Stewmac sells so I don't think they are the problem. I'm going to see if the JB sounds the same in the M6 as the Kelly. Like I said, it's only literally the lowest notes I have a problem with. They're both poplar (wings on the M6). Hopefully the bolt on vs. neckthru doesn't make much difference but we'll see. It'll only take 10 minutes to solder in the JB so I'll try it out.

[Foulacy]

odd, I was debating getting a DD for the same reasons you were. i LOVE the JB, amazing pickup, but I wanted something with even more output. thanks for the review, it's been added to my mental database.

[Racerx2k]

Tried a DD in my Model 4 and hated it. Too dark and muddy. Put the same DD in my ash Strat, which is known to be real bright, and it is a perfect fit. You have to weigh the guitar into the factor, too.

[Dreamland_Rebel]

with the Model 6 you're dealing with a maple neckthrough with poplar wings. so the pickups & bridge are mounted on a slab of maple and then resonating through poplar.

while the kelly is either a slab of alder or maple neckthrough with alder wings. so... its gonna sound different even if you have the same pup in both.

i personnally only like the Duncan Distortion in basswood guitars. other than that, it gets lost in the mix to me.

i'd try the Screamin Demon, or a Dimarzio Super Distortion in the Model 6.

[DonP]

I Have a Kelly XL with a JB/Jazz and I always loved the sound from it but maybe slightly deeper lows from the JB would put it right on the mark. Now in the Model 6, I'm trying out a Distortion in the bridge seeing if it would be "the one". I gotta say, I'm not really that impressed. I think most of the sound is just like the JB except for (literally) the bottom 3 frets on the low E string. Maybe slightly punchier everywhere else but about the same. When I'm chugging away, or muting (just going 012301230123 etc.), or playing something like the second part of mater of puppets, I really can't hear the notes. Just the distortion. It sounds really loose, bassy, undefined... I guess what you would call muddy?? Leaving everything the same and switching to the Kelly/JB, it sounds perfect, exactly the tight, defined, punchy tone that I want (see below why as well). With the M6/Dist, I tried rolling off the vol, turning down the gain, changing EQ settings, nothing gave me the sound that the JB had.

I should mention as well, I know most of you hate the Blue Voodoo and I'm not looking to argue about this.... (DonP - keep your fingers off the keyboard ya wiseass!!! lol). But in the last few weeks I've been on a "make it sound better hunt" and I see why people don't like it as it is. But.. I seriously think people haven't given it a chance. I found the one BIG thing it needed was an EQ. Lots of amps (most IMO) do. I have a DOD rack 31 band that a friend brought over and also used a MXR 10 band as well. They both took the amp, smacked it around a bit, and set it straight. I can get this to sound however I want now. It is very marshall-y. I can pretty much nail old Ozzy/Randy, and old Metallica (Kill 'em All up to the Black one, don't want anything later than that!!). And that's what I wanted.

Anyway, with MY new amazing amp tone and the Kelly with the JB, I found the sound I want. So I'm going to stick a JB in the Model 6 in the next day or 2 and see what happens.

I just thought it would be nice to have a post with my opinions where there is no bashing the Crate or the JB... (hint, hint...):ROTF:

Did someone say Blue DooDoo?

Ok Warlok,

You are on target. The JB, DD and Invader (used on early Metallica CDs) all share the same windings. The only difference is the magnets and poles. So it stands to reason that they all sound similar. The trick is to match the pickup to the guitar.

I put a DD in my 750XL string thru. It didn't suck, but I wasn't happy. Why? Short scale, mahogany, and the bridge pickup is located closer to the nut than other guitars, make the bridge more bassy. Solution? Full Shred set. Perfect fit.

I have a Duncan Designed DD in a KE3 body / DK1 neck. This guitar nails old school Metallica using MY rig. Might now work in you rig, but it's perfect in mine.

I have a JB in an SL2H. Yeah, does sound similar. Slight variations. Duncan Designed JB in a DK2 is similar as well.

I have an EMG81 in a RR24M. For some reason, this guitar going through my DSL100 sounds EXACTLY like Lynch in the Dokken days. Now I know Lynch used DD's in a maple body bolt on with a TS808 and an old school Marshall. But this just goes to show you that you can hit your favorite tones not using the exact equipment the original artist used.

And I'm in total agreement that an EQ can polish that turd of an amp:ROTF: Just kidding, I've never even played a DooDoo. I'm just here to give you shit If given one, I'm sure an EQ in the loop can work wonders. You are doing it correctly - stay away from foot pedal EQs, go with the MXR 10 or some other EQ that can't use batteries. The EQ needs to work at higher voltages to keep the "punch".

Most people on HC say the DSL100 is great as is, but could use a TS in the front and an EQ in the loop. I'm pretty happy with the way mine sounds so I hadn't done this yet.

I remember having a Mesa .22 Combo (and Pre-amp). That built in EQ was great for creating CRUNCH.

[Spivonious]

I've got both pickups as well. The JB sounds fantastic in my poplar Predator. Gives it some bite that it didn't have with the Jackson pickup before it.

In my Alder? Kelly the DD is amazing. I had EMGs in it and the guitar was muddy and lifeless. The DD really makes the guitar shine. Definitely just for metal though.

These are both going through the same (high gain) amp. I do have to slightly change my EQ when switching, as the JB can get a little bassy.

[Nightbat]

I have no idea what the Blue DooDoo is supposed to have for gain, but if it's a high-gain amp and you're running a Distortion into it, it's not the pickup that's the problem.

That's what I would say if I need a 31-band equaliser to jury-rig a good tone out of an amp