Let's talk strings gauges

[Matt_B]

So here's my problem. I like 10s on guitars with a 25.5" scale length but I don't like that gauge on guitars with a 24.75" scale length. I've tried 11s on the 24.75" scale length and it's a little too tight for my liking. This lead me to start dissecting the relationship between string gauge, string tension and scale length.

The simple solution would be to use 10s on the 25.5" guitars and 10.5s on the 24.75" guitars and that's what I will probably try because D'addario makes a sets of 10.5s.

The more complex (but relatively inexpensive) solution would be to make custom string sets from single strings purchased in bulks (packs of 12). This would only cost me roughly $3.18 per set.

The reason I'm considering the complex solution is that my foray into the world of string gauge science taught me that "normal" sets of strings are unbalanced. That is to say the tension on certain strings is very different when compared to other nearby strings. To illustrate, check this out:

25.5" scale length
==================
E .009" PL = 13.13 lbs.
B .011" PL = 11.01 lbs.
G .016" PL = 14.68 lbs.
D .024" NW = 15.77 lbs.
A .032" NW = 15.77 lbs.
E .042" NW = 14.77 lbs.
==================
E .010" PL = 16.21 lbs.
B .013" PL = 15.38 lbs.
G .017" PL = 16.57 lbs.
D .026" NW = 18.41 lbs.
A .036" NW = 19.54 lbs.
E .046" NW = 17.48 lbs.

On the 9s
- B string is lower tension than the high E
- Low E is lower tension than the A string.

On the 10s
- B string is lower tension than the high E
- Low E is lower tension than the A string.

To me those are the glaring inconsistencies which I can't reconcile. The gauges don't make sense from a standpoint of tension.

Anyway, I've got more data on some sets I've put together that are a bit more balanced within themselves and on the 2 scale lengths. The one catch is I'd have to pure nickel strings (instead of the normal nickel wound) because a few of the gauges I would like to use aren't available in nickel wound.

If you want to crunch your own numbers, check out this Java based string tension calculator.

http://www.bangzero.org/stringtension/

I looked forward to hearing from others would have looked into this as well.

[Jacksonguy666]

Holy shit dude! Thats some good sleuthing. And that tension thing is really weird...

[Jacksonguy666]

I thought you did the number crunching yourself. But it's still cool.

[Spivonious]

Yep I did those calculations a couple years back and found the same thing. I don't know why the tensions vary between strings. You'd think that having equal tension across all of them would be ideal.

[Jacksonguy666]

I can't access that link. Someone should test a Gibson explorer for me with 24.75 scale, size 9-42. Just the "standard" set of 9's. I don't know if it asks for anything like bridge or anything, but it's just a stock explorer

[Matt_B]

I can't access that link.

Does clicking the link lead to a bad page or can you not run the calculator app? I ask because I cannot run the app at work due to security measures.

[Matt_B]

A more balanced set of 9s (on a 25.5" scale length) would be
- .009 (13.13 lbs)
- .012 (13.11 lbs)
- .016 (14.68 lbs) or you could try a .015 w/12.9 lbs.
- .024 (15.77 lbs)
- .032 (15.77 lbs)
- .044 (16.1 lbs)

I've got a spreadsheet at home to track the average tension of each string then the deviance of each string for that average.

[MetalMedal II]

Looks like your doing a tour de force analysis of this.

I use 10s. It's interesting to note that 10s already have increased tension on the bass/wound side compared to the treble/plain string side. I can see how using a set of mixed 9s and 10s with the light top/heavy bottom, would further this discrepancy and could cause neck twisting in unstable necks.

Of course the whole perceived string tension is another can of worms:
http://liutaiomottola.com/myth/perception.htm

The make and style of the wound strings also plays a role.

I came across another tension calculator:
http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/stringxxiii.html

[charvel750]

I have found over the years that "feel" is more important than the "science" of things. Remember years ago when acoustical engineers tried to make the famed Strativarius violins? Using physics and advanced scientific understanding, they crafted what should have been the best playing and sounding instruments. They failed miserably. There is something about the "feel" of things which rules over "science" of things.

[max]

I looked into that some time ago. I mean it's undeniable that the high e-string is a pain in the ass
to do bendings on (meedelymeedelymeedly meeeeeeoops - "Ouch, fuck!") and just generally feels
too stiff. And if the e-string feels right often the b-string feels too sloppy.

In fact I should still have a new set of 0095-whatever somewhere that I wanted to make a
custom set with. I never got around doing it though.

What gauges would make an even set to replace 010-046?

[Matt_B]

Of course the whole perceived string tension is another can of worms

Yeah but I'm trying to quantify what might work then I'm going to actually test my hypothesis.

With Les Pauls, the height of the stop tail piece can affect tension but it also can't be too low and cause the strings to hit the back of the bridge. That results in putting excessive pressure on the bridge which will eventually cause it to collapse.

There's also the issue of strings giving more when you have a floating trem. For me that's not much of an issue because the only guitars I own that have trems (OFRs) also have Tremol-nos installed so I can lock the bridge down if need be.

The make and style of the wound strings also plays a role.

Yeah, I'm with you on that which is why I'm stick to D'addario XL plains and nickel wounds. They publish their tension specs so I'm going to assume that the data is valid.

[Matt_B]

I have found over the years that "feel" is more important than the "science" of things. Remember years ago when acoustical engineers tried to make the famed Strativarius violins? Using physics and advanced scientific understanding, they crafted what should have been the best playing and sounding instruments. They failed miserably. There is something about the "feel" of things which rules over "science" of things.

They failed to create the Stradivarius because they missed some critical details. Besides, I'm not trying to do anything near that complex. I'm just trying to solve a minor problem with string tension differential between (2) different scale lengths. If can I make strings feel better overall than that's a bonus.

Science helps us understand the world around us and gives us baselines from where we can experiment. I agree that the proof is in the feel (or the pudding) but if one wishes to solve a problem like this, they are faced with (2) options:
- Take a wild guess and see what happens.
- Do some research, gather data, analyze the data, make an educated guess and see what happens.

I'll take the latter in this case.

[Matt_B]

What gauges would make an even set to replace 010-046?

What gauges would make an even set to replace 010-046?

It looks like for a set of 10s on a 25.5" scale, this would work:
- .010 (16.21 lbs)
- .0135 (16.6 lbs)
- .017 (16.58 lbs)
- .026 (18.41 lbs)
- .036 (19.54 lbs)
- .049 (19.7 lbs) or, if the .049 is a little too thick for you, you can go to .048 at 18.9 lbs.

[max]

Thats basically the set I use with a .0005'' thicker b-string.

[Matt_B]

I get different string tensions:

len 25.5"

E .010" PL == 16.21#
B, .0135" PL == 16.59#
G, .017" PL == 16.57#
D, .026" PB == 19.81#
A,, .036" PB == 21.87#
E,, .049" PB == 22.49#
total == 113.54#

That would be because you're using phosphor bronze (acoustic) strings in the equation. Change all instances of "PB" to "NW" for nickel wound strings.

The cores in phosphor bronze strings are thicker which gives them higher tension for driving the top of an acoustic.