Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24
  1. #1

    Default Anybody use in ear wired monitors/ headphone amps?

    My band is wanting to go to in ear monitors for gigs. To keep cost down we want to go with a wired system/ headphone amp. This is new to me. I've been looking at a few headphone amps and I have no knowledge of them other than what Iv'e read on gear selling sites like MF. I was wondering how well they work. As far as what I've found so far is the Rolls RA62c 6 channel, a Nady HPA-8 8 channel and a Pre Sonus HP60 6 channel. They'res only 4 of us but we want room to expand if we get a keyboard player or another guitar, so more than 4 channels is a must. Are they're any that I should look at? Thanks for the help in advance.
    I want to go out nice and peaceful in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming and hollering like the passengers in his car.

  2. #2

    Default

    Bump?
    I want to go out nice and peaceful in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming and hollering like the passengers in his car.

  3. #3

    Default

    Aussie band `Cold Chisel` uses them so they must be pretty good...
    Don`t know exactly what it is but it`s an `in the ear ` job.

    That`s all I can tell ya, check the vid out if you want.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdVRNDnTKTU

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tomanyjacksons View Post
    My band is wanting to go to in ear monitors for gigs. To keep cost down we want to go with a wired system/ headphone amp. This is new to me. I've been looking at a few headphone amps and I have no knowledge of them other than what Iv'e read on gear selling sites like MF. I was wondering how well they work. As far as what I've found so far is the Rolls RA62c 6 channel, a Nady HPA-8 8 channel and a Pre Sonus HP60 6 channel. They'res only 4 of us but we want room to expand if we get a keyboard player or another guitar, so more than 4 channels is a must. Are they're any that I should look at? Thanks for the help in advance.

    We went to them last year and they work great- I can hear "EVERYTHING" in the mix now....Really helps on stage. We use the four channel Shure set up but its a straight up metal/rock band so not too worried about keys etc. I would tell you to use wireless if at all possible, it will be difficult to manage the wires accross a stage but either way, you'd be happy with the mix you hear through the in-ears.

  5. #5

    Default

    Everybody else other than the bass player has stated they only want wireless. I want wireless too, but looking at price tags of the systems I know about, I'm blown away $$$$$. Any ideas on wireless systems that are good that won't break the bank.
    I want to go out nice and peaceful in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming and hollering like the passengers in his car.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tomanyjacksons View Post
    Everybody else other than the bass player has stated they only want wireless. I want wireless too, but looking at price tags of the systems I know about, I'm blown away $$$$$. Any ideas on wireless systems that are good that won't break the bank.
    For in-ear monitors? Those are multichannel deals, they generally aren't cheap. I've tried using them, I had a hard time adjusting and never did get used to them. I didn't have enough time with them though. They're expensive. A good wireless system for your guitar or bass isn't cheap either. I'm sure Behringer or some other brand makes cheap ones. Try looking around.
    The 2nd Amendment: America's Original Homeland Defense.

  7. #7

    Default

    We had a show last night and we have 1 in ear Carvin set of a transmitter and a receiver that the drummer used. Our stage volume was so ridiculously loud. My head is still pounding and my ears are still ringing. Our drummer is heavy handed anyways and the addition of him not being able to hear how loud he was just worsened the situation. At the show on breaks the rest of the guys tossed around the idea of a drum surround, which in my opinion is not really a fix. I called our sound guy this morning with a plan I came up with after the show when I was trying to get to sleep and my ears were still ringing so loud that it kept me awake. Tell me what you guys think of it. I told him to push his drums in his monitor mix a bit more than normal and when he says he can't hear everything else just tell him that he needs to lighten up on the drums. Our stage volume was so loud last night just to overcome the drums, that our sound guy turned the mains all the way down when a lady came over to ask if he could turn it down a little bit and he said you could hardly here a difference. Please help......
    I want to go out nice and peaceful in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming and hollering like the passengers in his car.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tomanyjacksons View Post
    We had a show last night and we have 1 in ear Carvin set of a transmitter and a receiver that the drummer used. Our stage volume was so ridiculously loud. My head is still pounding and my ears are still ringing. Our drummer is heavy handed anyways and the addition of him not being able to hear how loud he was just worsened the situation. At the show on breaks the rest of the guys tossed around the idea of a drum surround, which in my opinion is not really a fix. I called our sound guy this morning with a plan I came up with after the show when I was trying to get to sleep and my ears were still ringing so loud that it kept me awake. Tell me what you guys think of it. I told him to push his drums in his monitor mix a bit more than normal and when he says he can't hear everything else just tell him that he needs to lighten up on the drums. Our stage volume was so loud last night just to overcome the drums, that our sound guy turned the mains all the way down when a lady came over to ask if he could turn it down a little bit and he said you could hardly here a difference. Please help......
    In-ear monitors won't help that. Your drummer needs to lighten up. Pillows in the bass drums.... no skins on the bottom of his toms? I dunno, I'm not a drummer but a good drummer knows how to do that crap.
    The 2nd Amendment: America's Original Homeland Defense.

  9. #9

    Default

    Hey xeno, yeah. I"ve been trying to get him to switch to electric drums for small bar gigs. But "they have no dynamics and I won"t use them". Evidently electric drums equals all hell breaks loose in a bar where all of the talent scouts are looking for the next big drummer. Sorry guys for the straggling rant. I'm just frustrated about not knowing what to do.
    I want to go out nice and peaceful in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming and hollering like the passengers in his car.

  10. #10

    Default

    I have no experience with wired monitor in ears. However I do have a wireless in ear monitor setup that I use occassionally. The reason I don't use it all the time is that sometimes we run our own PA system and without a dedicated sound man its tough to use them. But on the occassions I did use the in ears it was fantastic! I could have him give me any mix I wanted at a manageable volume. The wireless system I use is a Sennheiser. These systems come with generic foam type ear pieces but to truly use this type of system I had a set of custom molded ear buds made with dual drivers in them. The foam ones that come with the system don't seal as well as custom molded ones of course, plus the dual drivers help the sound tremendously. These systems aren't cheap but they work great! I would suggest everyone in your band buy their own wireless in ears rather than using a wired system for everyone. BTW, I could still "feel" the thump of the drums and bass on stage using the in ears and I think if your drummer had custom molded in ears with a good mix, he'd probably lighten up without thinking about it. They would sound loud to him and he would feel the drums too. If he was using those generic foam ones then he probably heard a muffled sound and thats why he was pounding the drums harder.

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tomanyjacksons View Post
    Hey xeno, yeah. I"ve been trying to get him to switch to electric drums for small bar gigs. But "they have no dynamics and I won"t use them". Evidently electric drums equals all hell breaks loose in a bar where all of the talent scouts are looking for the next big drummer. Sorry guys for the straggling rant. I'm just frustrated about not knowing what to do.
    So you basically have a drummer that doesn't give a shit about anybody but himself. Personally I'd tell him to up his talent to include playing to the venue, or just find someone else. When stage volume cripples a sound man like that you're fucked no matter where you play. Getting in ears is not going to help anything really. Its a band aid on a gunshot wound. Ive been a sound guy for about 15 years now and I've run into a ton of guys that have your drummers attitude and are unwilling to change when needed. They just hurt the band as a whole and it will cost you gigs.

    How many members are there and how do you setup your amps on the stage? There might be a way to move things around a little and have a big benefit from it.
    My Toys:
    '94 Dinky Rev. PB Tiger Flame
    '94 Dinky Rev. PB Quilt
    '94 Dinky HX in Black
    '12 ESP Mii NTB in Black

  12. #12
    JCF (I have no life)Member jgcable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Milford, CT
    Posts
    15,276

    Default

    Hard to mix live, wireless is pretty much mandatory if you play live and stand up. Wired is for orchestral musicians who sit for an entire gig.
    My experience with them is they take a while to get used to and you need a really good monitor mix.
    I also felt that they "disconnect" you from your live sound and from the audience.
    They are great if you are lip syncing to a track or singing over a backing track or backing vocal.

  13. #13

    Default

    tomany, electric drums or muffing acoustic drums is not a good solution, the sound, the dynamics and overall feel do suffer.

    Let your drummer play with the headphones but so that he only hears overheads, then he will realize how much noise he is making. And make him record his practicing with only one microphone.

    You see the problem is very common, today's drummers including A class pros, play the cymbals too loudly. The way drums are recorded in the studio and mixed live since the late 60's has made drummers crappier dynamic wise. Since then, drum mix has become more dependent on close micing which allows drummers to bash the shit out of cymbals. Earlier times, when they used 1 mic on the drumset, that kind of playing was impossible because it would have ruined to whole mix. We all know how heavily Bonham played but he went relatively easy on the cymbals, he didn't use closed mics in the studio, he mixed the drumset by himself by playing with the correct volume.

    I love heavy handed drumming but bashing the cymbals is stupid, just unnecessary washy noise. The power comes from the drums not bashing trebly metal sheets. The worst case is when some metal drummers buy the brightest sounding cymbals and beat the living shit out of them including the china (which should be played at ease) but are complete pussies when it comes to hitting the drums.

    Drums themselves can be played relatively loud... depends of the venue and situation... It's elementary that a decent drummer can play with the same energy at different volume levels. The loudness comes how fast you throw the stick with the wrist, any kind of Rambo-eque muscle maneuvering is simply wrong playing technique. Just look how those Rambo drummers who move their arms too much are constantly in the hospital for yet another surgery while great drummers play until they are in the grave with any kind of speed and volume level with total looseness in the arms.

    Just let him hear how much noise he is making, he should understand what the others feel. Using darker and not too heavy/thick cymbals is good for the ears too (not too dark unless you play old school swing).

    I think drummers should start playing like classical musicians, with sheet music which includes dynamic markings. For example when it's heavy rock then the kick and snare are marked with ff (fortissimo) but the hi-hat/ride/other cymbals mp (mezzo-piano) or something like that.

    I'm becoming more and more demanding when it comes to dynamic control for drummers, when I play live I don't care about monitors or headphones, I want to hear all instruments on the stage, only the vocals come from the monitors. So the last thing I want to hear is some loud, annoying washy shit when I'm playing live.
    Last edited by Endrik; 10-11-2012 at 01:46 PM.
    "There is nothing more fearful than imagination without taste" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

    "To be stupid, selfish and have good health are three requirements for happiness, though if stupidity is lacking, all is lost" - Gustave Flaubert

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AdRock View Post
    So you basically have a drummer that doesn't give a shit about anybody but himself. Personally I'd tell him to up his talent to include playing to the venue, or just find someone else. When stage volume cripples a sound man like that you're fucked no matter where you play. Getting in ears is not going to help anything really. Its a band aid on a gunshot wound. Ive been a sound guy for about 15 years now and I've run into a ton of guys that have your drummers attitude and are unwilling to change when needed. They just hurt the band as a whole and it will cost you gigs.

    How many members are there and how do you setup your amps on the stage? There might be a way to move things around a little and have a big benefit from it.
    +1

    one of the things that helped my band become as successful as we were was because we weren't too loud. the soundman had control of our sound. HE made us loud. we sounded good too. in-ears won't help. they are most effective in rooms with bad acoustics and poor monitor systems.
    Last edited by markD; 10-11-2012 at 01:48 PM.
    GEAR:

    some guitars...WITH STRINGS!!!! most of them have those sticks like on guitar hero....AWESOME!!!!

    some amps...they have some glowing bottle like things in them...i think my amps do that modelling thing....COOL, huh?!?!?!

    and finally....

    i have those little plastic "chips" used to hit the strings...WHOA!!!!

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AdRock View Post
    So you basically have a drummer that doesn't give a shit about anybody but himself. Personally I'd tell him to up his talent to include playing to the venue, or just find someone else. When stage volume cripples a sound man like that you're fucked no matter where you play. Getting in ears is not going to help anything really. Its a band aid on a gunshot wound. Ive been a sound guy for about 15 years now and I've run into a ton of guys that have your drummers attitude and are unwilling to change when needed. They just hurt the band as a whole and it will cost you gigs.

    How many members are there and how do you setup your amps on the stage? There might be a way to move things around a little and have a big benefit from it.
    No, he gives a shit yes. He's not been playing all of his adult life like the rest of us. He's a good drummer he's just very aggressive and I believe the that once we all have in ear monitors it can be mixxed so that he will bring down his acoustic volume. I know electric drums do take some of the magic off of their sound but I think it's going to help him out alot. As far as getting another drummer, not a chance we have been in bands together off and on for several years. He's one of those guys that will always without a doubt have your back when shit hits the fan and he's one of my bro's. He's always saying that he's still learning to which I reply, same here I always learn something. We went to watch a couple local bands that we are good friends with and we got a chance to talk about the noise levels on stage and he felt really bad and decided we can try an electric set of drums. I had explained to him how bad my head hurt after the second set and couldn't even here a monitor that was 3 feet in front of me that our sound guy tried his damndest to keep it where I could hear it. Needless to say he's actually willing to give the effort once his feelings being hurt feeling subsided.


    Now to how we setup. In bars we are crammed pretty close together. drums in the back with bass on one side guitar on the other and our singer up in front. When we play outside we spread out like we can't stand the smell of one another, but with the same basic setup. The bass player and I have our amps directly behind us, indoor gigs I turn mine down far enough it can't be heard by me and the bass player runs a line straight to the board with a cab and he turns down also. We want a quite stage, I'd like to have it so quiet up there that we only one in ear monitor and still hear perfectly. Which I know is ridiculous but just saying.

    Yeah we've had complaints about the volume levels and although it hasn't cost us any gigs as of yet, I'm sure it won't take long for that too happen.


    Carvin in ear monitors any good?

    Thanks to everyone so far as you've been a great help in so many ways.
    I want to go out nice and peaceful in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming and hollering like the passengers in his car.

  16. #16
    JCF (I have no life)Member jgcable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Milford, CT
    Posts
    15,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Endrik View Post
    tomany, electric drums or muffing acoustic drums is not a good solution, the sound, the dynamics and overall feel do suffer.

    Let your drummer play with the headphones but so that he only hears overheads, then he will realize how much noise he is making. And make him record his practicing with only one microphone.

    You see the problem is very common, today's drummers including A class pros, play the cymbals too loudly. The way drums are recorded in the studio and mixed live since the late 60's has made drummers crappier dynamic wise. Since then, drum mix has become more dependent on close micing which allows drummers to bash the shit out of cymbals. Earlier times, when they used 1 mic on the drumset, that kind of playing was impossible because it would have ruined to whole mix. We all know how heavily Bonham played but he went relatively easy on the cymbals, he didn't use closed mics in the studio, he mixed the drumset by himself by playing with the correct volume.

    I love heavy handed drumming but bashing the cymbals is stupid, just unnecessary washy noise. The power comes from the drums not bashing trebly metal sheets. The worst case is when some metal drummers buy the brightest sounding cymbals and beat the living shit out of them including the china (which should be played at ease) but are complete pussies when it comes to hitting the drums.

    Drums themselves can be played relatively loud... depends of the venue and situation... It's elementary that a decent drummer can play with the same energy at different volume levels. The loudness comes how fast you throw the stick with the wrist, any kind of Rambo-eque muscle maneuvering is simply wrong playing technique. Just look how those Rambo drummers who move their arms too much are constantly in the hospital for yet another surgery while great drummers play until they are in the grave with any kind of speed and volume level with total looseness in the arms.

    Just let him hear how much noise he is making, he should understand what the others feel. Using darker and not too heavy/thick cymbals is good for the ears too (not too dark unless you play old school swing).

    I think drummers should start playing like classical musicians, with sheet music which includes dynamic markings. For example when it's heavy rock then the kick and snare are marked with ff (fortissimo) but the hi-hat/ride/other cymbals mp (mezzo-piano) or something like that.

    I'm becoming more and more demanding when it comes to dynamic control for drummers, when I play live I don't care about monitors or headphones, I want to hear all instruments on the stage, only the vocals come from the monitors. So the last thing I want to hear is some loud, annoying washy shit when I'm playing live.
    As usual by Endrik... outstanding advise. I agree.

  17. #17
    JCF (I have no life)Member jgcable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Milford, CT
    Posts
    15,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by markD View Post
    +1

    one of the things that helped my band become as successful as we were was because we weren't too loud. the soundman had control of our sound. HE made us loud. we sounded good too. in-ears won't help. they are most effective in rooms with bad acoustics and poor monitor systems.
    Hey Mark, I just recently learned that! You would think that over 35 years of playing live I would have figured it out earlier.
    For the last year or so one of my bands has been playing live 4-5 times a week. Many times we were told that we are REALLY loud and that the crowd can't have any type of conversations anywhere in the club when we are playing. My response?? "We are a hard rock band. We are supposed to play loud! If you want to have a conversation.. go to Starbucks!"
    The last gig we did (last Saturday, I decided to bring only 1/2 of the PA and I had it set at least 30% lower in volume than we usually play.
    It was one of our best gigs. The crowd loved it and hardly anybody made a comment about us being too loud. On the contrary, people told me that it was one of the best mixes they have heard.

  18. #18
    Platinum Member vector's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    somewhere between here and there
    Posts
    1,531

    Default

    Tomanyjacksons- as a member of yet another "small venue" band, we have used in-ears to varying degrees of success. Here's my findings: 1) they do enable you to hear a LOT more of the mix, they also can help to buffer some of the volume coming from other sources- I use them to help protect my ears from my own amp... in conjunction with a decent sound man and set up they can be invaluable to the band's sound. Drawbacks are that they can be expensive, you need a mixing board that has a feature to select and control monitor signals, i.e. mixing how much of each mic-ed instrument/vox going to each person wearing. That alone can be frustrating as hell. Then getting a quality set of ear buds is expensive. We use a Galaxy Audio 1000T which is reasonable in cost and delivers decent performance but the ear buds suck ass. I went to a quality pair of behind the ear buds for a mp3 player ( 40 bucks) as I tend to thrash around a bit and the buds were always falling out. It looks stupid but it gets the job done until I decide to fork out 300 bucks for a real set of stage buds.
    Last edited by vector; 10-13-2012 at 07:35 AM.

  19. #19

    Default

    At one gig we were so loud everyone moved to the back wall of the venue. That's not good. In addition, it's not just about people not being able to hear their own conversations but rather about the bar tenders being able to hear the drink orders! This point is very important if you want to get booked again. Nowadays we run a Presonus digital board with powered QSC boxes. The volume levels are lower with lots of head room. It's still loud but things are clear rather than being all out volume which people's ears can't take. Remember, as a band you're behind the speakers. The audience is right in front of those speakers getting blasted!

    Rudy

  20. #20
    Platinum Member vector's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    somewhere between here and there
    Posts
    1,531

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by roodyrocker View Post
    At one gig we were so loud everyone moved to the back wall of the venue. That's not good. In addition, it's not just about people not being able to hear their own conversations but rather about the bar tenders being able to hear the drink orders! This point is very important if you want to get booked again. Nowadays we run a Presonus digital board with powered QSC boxes. The volume levels are lower with lots of head room. It's still loud but things are clear rather than being all out volume which people's ears can't take. Remember, as a band you're behind the speakers. The audience is right in front of those speakers getting blasted!

    Rudy
    Rudy- we just had a gig with your very scenario- the owner was running the bar this night and he kept telling us to turn down! At one point, he went so far as to approach our sound man and tell him to kill the PA on stage right side. That's fucked up. I get that he needs to hear the drink orders but maybe his venue isn't well-suited to hosting bands- especially hard rock and heavy metal ones! The issue with that place is: that it's so small (75 or 80 people max) even if we didn't mic the drums, our volume would STILL need to be to a level where we could match the un-mic-ed, acoustic volume of the drums. And don't suggest electronic drums- it ain't gonna happen. We'll find bigger venues to play before we go electronic.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •