Metal Modal Madness

[Cliff]

Hey folks,
My first day off work for the holidays, so I took the opportunity to record what I hope is something original:

Enjoy!

[Axewielder]

Video is unavailable.

[Twitch]

Thats where the madness comes in. Driven there from frustration and curiosity. Cliff you tease!!

[Cliff]

Fixed. Some weird YouTube glitch.

[Twitch]

Pretty cool. Im probably wrong here, but dont modes only come into play when your playing a scale(or start a scale on a note that isnt the root note of the key) that isnt in the root key of the rhythm or main background of the piece. I never really understood the term. I always equated modal playing as giving a technical name to something that was a little outside the box, or unorthodox. Like say your main boogy is in E maj but you solo in the key of G maj but start and stop on the root note of E? I dont think Im getting this, Ive never claimed to be technical. Ive always played by ear or what feels right. Im a bag of tricks kind of guy. I know where the notes I need to be playing are 99% of the time, I just learn new ways to play them and new patterns to play them in.

[Cliff]

Thanks
My understanding of modes is that the prime notes you solo around are still going to be those of the background, but the spacing of the notes is as if you were playing in a different key. So if my backing track is in Dm, and I play around a Dm scale, then I'm playing Dm. Here, the backing track is mostly on E, A and B flat, and I was playing the spacings of the scale of Dm (at least, that was the original intention) against the E; and I was resolving mostly to E in the lead part. With reference to Dm, the E is the most remote note - it's the only one that doesn't have a fifth in the key. I think this is the Phrygian mode.
Anyone remember the Sex Pistols' Phrygian In the Rigging?
Actually, just checked Wikipedia, and it looks like I was aiming for the Locrian. What a waste of a good pun. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locrian_mode)

[Twitch]

Yup, greek to me. Not even sure I want to understand, but thanks for trying. The minute you gave me a note, is the moment you lost me. Id have to consult the circle of fifths then the fret board to understand any of that. I probably play in some off the wall mode all the time and dont even know it. I do know harmonic minor(and prefer to play in it, whether the key is minor or not) and hardly ever hit any bad notes. Most of my solos tend to sound middle eastern though.

[Cliff]

I suspect much of modern metal is played in some off-the-wall mode. I'm a big fan of harmonic minor, too - as is Troy Stetina.
Allow me one more chance to explain modes, as it was told to me. Whether or not it's useful knowledge is another matter:
Consider the notes of the C major scale, and then let's number them 1 through 7, with 1 being C. The three principle chords in this scale are based on the first, fourth and fifth notes of the scale- C major, F major and G major. A chord in a given key is made up of the relative first, third and fifth notes in the scale. So for the root chord, C, that's going to be note #1 (C), note #3 (E) and note #5 (G). For the fourth chord, starting at F, the three notes of the chord will be note #4 (F), note #6 (A) and note #8 (C). This makes a lot more sense playing the scale on a guitar. Notice how the notes of the chord are relative, so we go from 1,3,5 for C to 4,6,8 for F, which starts on the 4th note. For the fifth, we have #5 (G), #7 (B) and #9 (D). The distance between the first and third determines whether the chord is a major or minor chord. In C major, the three principle chords are all major.
For different modes, we use exactly the same notes, but assign the number #1 to a different starting note, and build our chords from there. If we choose D, we have (if I remember correctly) D Dorian, common in 70s rock. The three principle chords will be Dm #1 (D), #3 (F), #5 (A); G major #4 (G), #6 (B), #8(D); Am, #5 (A), #7 (C), #9 (E). The numbers here are relative to the D, but if we add 1, they're back relative to the original C.
If you start at E, you end up with Em #1 (E), #3 (G), #5 (B), Am, #4 (A), #6 (C), #8 (E) and B diminished # 5 (B), #7 (D), #9 (F). Note how the B diminished has a minor third, and the fifth is actually flattened - it doesn't have the perfect fifth available to it, which would be F#. I can't remember the name for this mode.
Start on F, and you end up with F major, B diminished and C major - this is a pretty far out one.
Start on G, and you get G major, C major and D minor.
Start on A, and you have good old A minor: A minor, D minor and E minor
Start on B and you have B Locrian: B diminished, F major and G major.
On reflection, not sure this is any clearer than the Wikipedia article, but it's a different way to think about it, and works better for me. Easier to remember, too, since it's just basically counting.

[Cliff]

I suspect much of modern metal is played in some off-the-wall mode. I'm a big fan of harmonic minor, too - as is Troy Stetina.
Allow me one more chance to explain modes, as it was told to me. Whether or not it's useful knowledge is another matter:
Consider the notes of the C major scale, and then let's number them 1 through 7, with 1 being C. The three principle chords in this scale are based on the first, fourth and fifth notes of the scale- C major, F major and G major. A chord in a given key is made up of the relative first, third and fifth notes in the scale. So for the root chord, C, that's going to be note #1 (C), note #3 (E) and note #5 (G). For the fourth chord, starting at F, the three notes of the chord will be note #4 (F), note #6 (A) and note #8 (C). This makes a lot more sense playing the scale on a guitar. Notice how the notes of the chord are relative, so we go from 1,3,5 for C to 4,6,8 for F, which starts on the 4th note. For the fifth, we have #5 (G), #7 (B) and #9 (D). The distance between the first and third determines whether the chord is a major or minor chord. In C major, the three principle chords are all major.
For different modes, we use exactly the same notes, but assign the number #1 to a different starting note, and build our chords from there. If we choose D, we have (if I remember correctly) D Dorian, common in 70s rock. The three principle chords will be Dm #1 (D), #3 (F), #5 (A); G major #4 (G), #6 (B), #8(D); Am, #5 (A), #7 (C), #9 (E). The numbers here are relative to the D, but if we add 1, they're back relative to the original C.
If you start at E, you end up with Em #1 (E), #3 (G), #5 (B), Am, #4 (A), #6 (C), #8 (E) and B diminished # 5 (B), #7 (D), #9 (F). Note how the B diminished has a minor third, and the fifth is actually flattened - it doesn't have the perfect fifth available to it, which would be F#. I can't remember the name for this mode.
Start on F, and you end up with F major, B diminished and C major - this is a pretty far out one.
Start on G, and you get G major, C major and D minor.
Start on A, and you have good old A minor: A minor, D minor and E minor
Start on B and you have B Locrian: B diminished, F major and G major.
On reflection, not sure this is any clearer than the Wikipedia article, but it's a different way to think about it, and works better for me. Easier to remember, too, since it's just basically counting.

[Cliff]

WTF!? Everything's coming out black on black. None more black.

[Twitch]

Brain....near melt down...must...clear...miiiinduuuuh! Ill stick with the ear to guide me thank you and those of you that get that can label what I play for me.

[RacerX]

i suspect much of modern metal is played in some off-the-wall mode. I'm a big fan of harmonic minor, too - as is troy stetina.
Allow me one more chance to explain modes, as it was told to me. Whether or not it's useful knowledge is another matter:
Consider the notes of the c major scale, and then let's number them 1 through 7, with 1 being c. The three principle chords in this scale are based on the first, fourth and fifth notes of the scale- c major, f major and g major. A chord in a given key is made up of the relative first, third and fifth notes in the scale. So for the root chord, c, that's going to be note #1 (c), note #3 (e) and note #5 (g). For the fourth chord, starting at f, the three notes of the chord will be note #4 (f), note #6 (a) and note #8 (c). This makes a lot more sense playing the scale on a guitar. Notice how the notes of the chord are relative, so we go from 1,3,5 for c to 4,6,8 for f, which starts on the 4th note. For the fifth, we have #5 (g), #7 (b) and #9 (d). The distance between the first and third determines whether the chord is a major or minor chord. In c major, the three principle chords are all major.
For different modes, we use exactly the same notes, but assign the number #1 to a different starting note, and build our chords from there. If we choose d, we have (if i remember correctly) d dorian, common in 70s rock. The three principle chords will be dm #1 (d), #3 (f), #5 (a); g major #4 (g), #6 (b), #8(d); am, #5 (a), #7 (c), #9 (e). The numbers here are relative to the d, but if we add 1, they're back relative to the original c.
If you start at e, you end up with em #1 (e), #3 (g), #5 (b), am, #4 (a), #6 (c), #8 (e) and b diminished # 5 (b), #7 (d), #9 (f). Note how the b diminished has a minor third, and the fifth is actually flattened - it doesn't have the perfect fifth available to it, which would be f#. I can't remember the name for this mode.
Start on f, and you end up with f major, b diminished and c major - this is a pretty far out one.
Start on g, and you get g major, c major and d minor.
Start on a, and you have good old a minor: A minor, d minor and e minor
start on b and you have b locrian: B diminished, f major and g major.
On reflection, not sure this is any clearer than the wikipedia article, but it's a different way to think about it, and works better for me. Easier to remember, too, since it's just basically counting.

tl; dr :d

[Cliff]

Hey Ron - can't tell if that's internet speak or formatting commands I should have used...

[VitaminG]

I dig it, Cliff! There are some interesting ideas in there too. Like what the bass is doing around 1:12 (I think?). Nice first crack at it

[Cliff]

Thanks! Yeah, that's the first time I've played bass in a long time, and I really enjoyed it. I was inspired by the music right at the end of the first Matrix movie, where it starts off a little bit like a metal version of Kashmir, then everything goes quiet except for the bass. I watched it a few nights ago with my eldest daughter, and it blew her mind .

[javert]

Cool stuff, Cliff. I tend to stick to either the aeolian og phrygian modes of the natural minor with the band, but I try to mix it up a bit sometimes by using other modes.

[Cliff]

Thanks Javert!

[Endrik]

Jeesh, even I understand what Mode is... it's how cool you dress... I'm not a prophesional in all these musical theoristix and whatnot... you just put on clothes that are cool and play a tune. It's just a key of the tune or a specific section of the tune. You know C Major or C minor... but not all tunes are in that... there's sharp, flat or sometimes sushi knife sharp cuts in the notes. So when you axe the fourth fellow.. the key isn't C Major (or whatever you call it in that old Homeros language) anymore but C Lydian or some shit. That's the key of the tune regardless what you are doing over it... no matter what scale shapes you use and how you call them... if the notes fit with the notes of the key then you are playing "in the mode" also know as "playing in the box" or "being a cheap ass motherfucker for following stupid conventions and not using all the possibilities" or just "I want a big apple strudel and not play jazz".