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View Full Version : Locking Tuners - Direct Replacement for J/C Gotohs?



shreddermon
02-25-2004, 10:35 AM
Does anyone know if Gotoh - or any other firm - makes a direct drop-in locking tuner replacement for the standard Gotohs on USA Select Jacksons?

I'm thinking of possibly swapping out the hardware on a string-through J/C. In the process, I'd like to replace the standard Gotohs with locking tuners. But I'd only consider it if this can be done without drilling any additional holes.

mm2002
02-25-2004, 02:28 PM
The Gotoh locking tuners are a direct replacement for the Jackson tuners except for the fact that they only come with the oval shaped knobs. The factory Jackson tuners were Gotohs with the Schaller style knob. All you have to do is put your knobs on the Gotohs and you're all set. If Gotoh offers their locking tuners with the Schaller style knobs I'm not aware of it.

shreddermon
02-25-2004, 02:47 PM
Ah bummer. Hardware swap = thinking of changing the color, so the old knobs won't work here. Oh well. Thanks for the info. anyway.

mm2002
02-25-2004, 07:05 PM
Yeah I know how ya feel.....plus the Schallers have a different screw hole placement so you really can't use them. It is a bummer for sure. Hey, if money isn't a problem you could always buy a set of both and you'd be in there!

buzzsaww
02-25-2004, 07:10 PM
gotoh with a schaller knob like these?
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead/Gotoh_Large_Schaller-style_Knob_Tuners.html

or these

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead/Gotoh_Schaller-style_Knob_Tuners.html

mm2002
02-25-2004, 07:40 PM
The first ones are 3 per side and have the large knob. The second ones are 6 in line and have the small knob. Either way those aren't locking tuners so what the fuck does it matter???? graemlins/laugh.gif

buzzsaww
02-25-2004, 08:55 PM
well fuck me for offering up a suggestion! fuckin people. did you even think about making a fucking phone call and asking for a sample knob to test fit on machine heads that will suit your purposes. probably fucking not. companies give out samples of their shit all the time. oh well what the fuck do i know.

RacerX
02-25-2004, 09:19 PM
Somebody needs a

http://www.slightlywarped.com/forumpictures/mis/chill.gif

you graemlins/baby.gif graemlins/evilimages/icons/tongue.gif

mm2002
02-25-2004, 10:07 PM
What Ron said!!! graemlins/laugh.gif
Hey buzzsaw, didn't you notice the little laughing smiley??? It's those imoticons that make everything ok. Sorry if you've had a bad day. images/icons/grin.gif

busdriver
03-01-2004, 10:11 AM
shreddermon, I can't tell you where to buy the locking tuners in the US (I'm in Germany), but I can tell you which part you exactly need.
http://www.savatage.de/pic/1.jpg
http://www.savatage.de/pic/2.jpg
You need Gotoh "SG381-07 L MG"
It's a direct replacement for Gotoh "SG381-07 L" which are the standard Jackson tuners. The only difference is the Jackson logo. Every parts-dealer should be able to get them for you.

shreddermon
03-01-2004, 03:02 PM
graemlins/headbang.gif

Thanks again.

MetalMedal II
03-01-2004, 09:25 PM
So, just to clarify, are all Gotoh SG38 Tuners locking tuners? I've been looking at the ones at the Warmoth site to replace the non-locking Jackson ones, but I'll only consider it if I can swap the oval knobs for the rectangle ones I already have.

Here's a link to the ones at Warmoth. On the menu on the right, click the "Tuning machines", and it's the second grouping. On that page they list the Schaller tuners as being locking tuners but don't mention the SG38 as being locking graemlins/scratchhead.gif .
http://www.warmoth.com/common/frames/hardware.htm

busdriver
03-01-2004, 11:39 PM
SG38 or SG381 (never noticed any difference) are usually not locking-tuners. Gotoh locking tuners have the addition "MG".

Gotoh tuners with the addition "HAPM" are locking tuners too, but these ones also height-adjustable (in case the headstock is not tilted and without string-retainer)

The tuning machines from Warmoth are the non-locking version. The tuners from Stewmac in the links above are also non-locking.

once more the Gotoh parts numbers:
"SG381-07 L" are the standard Jackson tuners
"SG381-07 L MG" are the same tuners, but locking
the only difference is, that they have the Gotoh logo on the back, instead of the Jackson logo.

[ March 01, 2004, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: busdriver ]

shreddermon
03-02-2004, 12:11 AM
Wow. Thanks busdriver!

Is the "L" for left-handed, though? Or does it stand for something else? They're going on a right-handed guitar.

toejam
03-02-2004, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by mm2002:
Hey buzzsaw, didn't you notice the little laughing smiley??? It's those imoticons that make everything ok. Sorry if you've had a bad day. images/icons/grin.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He's just upset because he's now like 400 pounds and the velcro on his shoes stopped working and he doesn't know how to tie regular laces! graemlins/laugh.gif graemlins/laugh.gif graemlins/laugh.gif

busdriver
03-02-2004, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by shreddermon:
Wow. Thanks busdriver!

Is the "L" for left-handed, though?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You're welcome images/icons/smile.gif
"SG381" is the tuner (sometimes they are called "SG38", but they are identically)
"07" is the knob-style
"L" is left, but it has nothing to do with, if your guitar is right- or left-handed (see below).
"MG" stands for locking tuner ("MaGnum lock")

look at the upper left corner in the picture with the knobs. The small left picture are the "L" tuners and the on the small right picture are the "R" tuners. It depends on where on the headstock you want to mount them.

Or better look here, I believe you'll notice the difference images/icons/smile.gif
http://www.savatage.de/pic/3.jpg

[ March 01, 2004, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: busdriver ]

MetalMedal II
03-02-2004, 02:44 PM
Cool, thanks for the clarification!

Offhand, does anyone know where to find the Gotoh locking tuners (SG381-07 L MG)in the US for a descent price? This type isn't even listed at Stew-mac.

shreddermon
03-02-2004, 06:04 PM
I've done a few internet searches for them with no luck so far. I'm guessing they'd have to be special ordered through a Gotoh parts dealer.

MetalMedal II
03-02-2004, 07:43 PM
Well, maybe someone here at the old JCF could help us out??

Oh yeah, I meant "decent price" on my last post, not "descent" price...wanted to address this before RacerX finds it. graemlins/poke.gif

RacerX
03-02-2004, 11:04 PM
Ya beat me! graemlins/laugh.gif
You're lucky I'm not in here that much. images/icons/grin.gif

deviltronix
03-02-2004, 11:21 PM
I just bought a set of gotoh locking tuners. In my opinion, they suck bigtime. They don't have a seperate knob to lock/unlock which is a plus in the appearance department, but a negative in performance. You have to turn the damn knobs forever to lock and unlock them. You can also lock/unlock with the notch on the top of the tuner, but I did this a few times and the metal is soft enough that they are starting to get stripped. I have a set of Sperzel, Schaller & Gotoh here and I personally find the gotohs to be shitty pains in the asses compared to the others. Just my opinion though.

Rich

MetalMedal II
03-02-2004, 11:46 PM
In my opinion, they suck bigtime. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for your honest opinion about them. What brand out of the remaining 2 do you prefer? I actually was thinking about getting the Schaller locking tuners, but the only ones I found are the kind without a set screw for the back of the headstock. Instead, there's a pin in the rear part of the tuner housing that requires a small drilled hole in the back of the headstock. I thought Schaller had the locking ones with a set screw, but maybe not.

I know the screw placement is different on the Gotoh compared to the Schaller, but I was able to install (non-locking) Schaller tuners on a Jackson headstock that originally had Gotohs on them. The tuners' knob posts just needed to be slightly turned toward the body for the holes to line up.

busdriver
03-02-2004, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by shreddermon:
I'm guessing they'd have to be special ordered through a Gotoh parts dealer. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">that's correct. There are countless combinations of tuning machines, knobs, colors, locking/non-locking, height-adjustable, left/right that no dealer has possible combinations in stock.
Here in Germany I just go to the guitar dealer around the corner, tell him what I want and get the tuning machines in approx 2 to 4 month'. Perhaps you can get them quicker in the US images/icons/smile.gif

busdriver
03-02-2004, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by deviltronix:
You have to turn the damn knobs forever to lock and unlock them.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">that's strange... I also have a set of Gotoh locking tuners and I only have to turn them 1/4 rotation until they lock graemlins/scratchhead.gif

deviltronix
03-03-2004, 12:04 AM
I have the Schaller ones with the set screw, and I like those alot. The dials seem to be higher quality than the Sperzel dials, although I tend to think the Sperzels may keep the best tune.

Another option is Grover Locking Tuners. I've never tried them, but the regular tuners I have from Grover are some of the best tuners in the world so I can't imagine them making junk.

BTW, check out all the colors this guy offers Sperzels in:

http://www.tkinstruments.com/id99.htm

MetalMedal II
03-03-2004, 01:03 PM
Wow, I guess you can get any color combo with Sperzels! All I need is black though!

Has the Sperzel design change in the last 12 years? I have em on a '91 Carvin, and sometimes find the pin that clamps the string in place sometimes get stuck when changing strings. Also, I've heard of the pin completely seizing inside the tuner and you need to replace the whole tuner...in fact this happed to a friend of mine with Sperzels. I'm just wondering if they use the same design now as then.

Regarding the Grovers, I can only find them with the half-round tuning knob, not the rectangular Jackson-style ones. I've also looked at the Planet-waves, but they seem pretty expensive from a company I'm not too familiar with. And the search continues... images/icons/tongue.gif

shreddermon
03-03-2004, 02:12 PM
I've had the same trouble with the Sperzels' locking pins.

mm2002
03-03-2004, 04:04 PM
I thought I'd try to help if I could so I just called and talked to my sales rep. He said they (Gotoh) do still offer the standard tuners with the Schaller knobs but not the locking tuners. To further complicate things he also said that the Schaller knobs will not fit the shaft on the locking tuners. Looks to me like the closest you're going to get is the Grovers. Stew Macs part # is 0876. At least the knobs on those look somewhat closer to the Schaller style than those Gotohs.

busdriver
03-21-2004, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by mm2002:
I thought I'd try to help if I could so I just called and talked to my sales rep. He said they (Gotoh) do still offer the standard tuners with the Schaller knobs but not the locking tuners. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have to dig out this old thread, because five or six weeks ago I ordered a set of Gotoh locking tuners (SG381-07-MG) with Schaller style knobs through a local music-shop. And now I have a confirmation from the dealer that Gotoh shipped my parts some days ago images/icons/smile.gif I don't know why your sales rep. told this, but they are still availabe!

MetalMedal II
03-21-2004, 01:42 PM
Cool, post a pic when you get them! images/icons/smile.gif

busdriver
03-22-2004, 11:17 AM
ok, but I'll post tuner-pics without guitar, because I don't have the guitar yet, for which the tuners are meant images/icons/wink.gif

busdriver
07-01-2004, 03:10 AM
I still owe you a picture of my Gotoh locking tuners SG381. These are a direct replacement for J/C Gotohs. I got them some weeks ago, brand new from the Gotoh factory. Someone said these tuners are not available anymore, but they are as you see images/icons/wink.gif
http://www.savatage.de/p/gotoh.jpg

[ July 01, 2004, 03:15 AM: Message edited by: busdriver ]

Jackson-Charvel
07-03-2004, 10:26 AM
Bus did you ever get your guitar to install these in? Just wondering if they were crap or as good as Sperzels/Schallers?

busdriver
07-04-2004, 04:08 AM
Originally posted by Jackson-Charvel:
Bus did you ever get your guitar to install these in?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh yes, I will get the guitar images/icons/smile.gif I only can't tell when, because the guitar is a home-made-project (not much too see yet). I'm now in the phase of getting the hardware together.

But I have another guitar in which the same tuners are installed. I can't compare them with other locking tuners, but I think the Gotohs work great.
Important is that you adjust the size of each string-hole to the diameter of the string. Sounds complicated, but that's totally easy images/icons/wink.gif If you don't do it you turn the knobs forever until the tuners lock. If you do it they lock immediately.

Jackson-Charvel
07-06-2004, 08:59 AM
Yeah a different locking mechanism, but as long as you use it intelligently, it should work flawlessly.

shreddermon
09-27-2004, 03:38 PM
Old thread resurrection!

As Busdriver has suggested here, you can get Gotoh SG38s with the locking mechanism and Schaller-style peg. I just did, in fact. Special ordered them from Allparts, and they came in last week.

Unfortunately, they are NOT direct "drop-in" replacements for the non-locking Gotohs standard on USA J/Cs! The tuner, peg, and screw mountings are all exactly the same. However, the outermost shaft that runs through the headstock to the front is WIDER on the locking tuners. So they won't fit without some additional routing of the headstock. /images/graemlins/nono.gif I wasn't willing to go there, so I sent them back for a refund.

Also, I would agree with many of Deviltronix's above-mentioned criticisms of the design. I wouldn't quite say it's a total POS, but the design and locking mechanism is subpar IMHO.

I could live with the cheesy design tradeoffs if it allowed me to not have to mod a great guitar. Unfortunately, that's not the case - they're not direct replacements. And, if modding or spec'ing locking tuners for a new guitar, I would definitely prefer to have a better design like Sperzels or Schallers.

Oh well. It would've been nice. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Jackson-Charvel
09-29-2004, 10:10 PM
Thanks for the update on the locking tuners. At least we know they don't fit without modding.

I had the same problem finding locking tuners for my Gibson LP withough modding. I was hearing conflicting reports that Grover Locking tuners fit without re-drilling mounting holes, and my owen experience says they don't fit, so who is right?

busdriver
10-01-2004, 01:43 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately, they are NOT direct "drop-in" replacements for the non-locking Gotohs standard on USA J/Cs! The tuner, peg, and screw mountings are all exactly the same. However, the outermost shaft that runs through the headstock to the front is WIDER on the locking tuners.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, that's interesting! My SG381 fit perfectly! Perhaps they changed the dimensions or there is a difference between SG38 and SG381 (I was told there is no, SG381 is only a new name).

buzzsaww
10-01-2004, 01:56 AM
sorry man, maybe i was having a bad day. no i didn't notice the smileys. sometimes i get too wrapped around this board and have to take a break and grab one of those chill pills. was a long time a go now, who knows what i was thinking.

BigDaddyD
10-01-2004, 10:56 AM
I use both the Sperzel and the Grover. I like them both. I installed the Grovers on my LPC. There is no extra knob. You just stick the string through the hole and tune. It looks in place in approx a 1/4 turn. Very nice and look like regular grovers.